Thursday, June 20, 2019

Programming an Estate

Tuesday's post got little response, so I feel I better explain.

In describing the bare bones of managing an estate, there are a host of things we need to know.  These can be broken down into a few general categories: 1) how much of whatever can the estate produce; 2) how much of this will go to the support of the estate vs. how much can be sold; 3) how many people will it take to watch over this production; and 4) how much will we pay in maintenance/wages.

From this, we'll be challenged to use our resources to create permanent assets that we hope will be productive, then produce a profit.  But every time we create an asset, we increase the number of persons that we need.  We increase the cost of maintenance.  We increase wages.  And most of all, we increase the chances that something in the organization will fail.

Make a hand mill, and operate it yourself, you can assess immediately how it needs to be handled and what may be wrong with it.  But hire someone else to work that hand mill, and trouble starts.  Build a watermill to grind grain and there are bigger problems.  Now you're relying on the river to run, and at a certain speed; you're relying on several people to keep the wheel and the cams in working order.  More people, more chance of incompetence, laziness, theft ... and ultimately that something will go wrong, which will be deliberately hidden from you because the worker doesn't want to be blamed.  Suddenly the mill goes up in flame ... or the wheel breaks and jams ... and while you think this was random, it's more likely because of who you hired or how much reliable oversight the mill received.

And the more you build, the more ventures you jump into, the greater your risk becomes.  Someone comes along and creates a friendlier, more manageable program, or delivery system, and *poof* ... Amazon or Facebook are gone.  No matter how big you are, there's no such thing as security.

When asking the question, "How do I manage an estate?" the assumption is usually that the players keep pouring money in so that money comes out, until it is boring.  OR, the DM keeps creating so much trouble with the process, strangling the profit, that the players quit.  We want a system that lets the players manage the troubles, and yet the management itself creates more troubles that the player can foresee, but can't easily escape.

We want the players to be laying in bed at night on a Tuesday, four days from the next game session, running it through their head: "If we shut down the mill in November, and pull the wheel from its mount then, we'll have four months to rebuild the housing ... and if we commit Jerome to it, we can trust him not to screw that up; but if Jerome's working on the mill, we'll need someone else to oversee the mine through the winter ... maybe if we concentrate on shoring up tunnels until we can get Jerome back, and suspend digging the shaft down to the third level; 'course, the second layer's starting to play out, and we'll need a fresh vein if we're going to get the foundry started next summer.  God, it sucks that we're fifty miles from another source of iron.  We should have taken August and September and prospected that south ridge.  Too late now.  Then again, we could still do it, but that's going to need a foreman too.  Who's going to keep a crew of twenty prospecting those hills in December and January.  Davis?  Nah, he gave us trouble on the mine.  Somebody new?  Not sure ... new people can be very unreliable.  I guess I could do it myself, let my henchman run with the party when we tackle the keep.  Then I could be around to oversee Davis every few days, and could plumb the third level.  But if I'm here, why not just manage the mill, and leave Jerome where he is?  Hm."

None of this means a thing if we don't nail down the principles upon which the game is founded.  What land produces how much food and raw materials; how much does it cost to build something; how long do built things last?  How much damage can a random person do, and how do you choose people you can count on?  All the games that we play like this work on the same principles: find the resources, make the resources, allocate the resources, reduce spoilage, fire incompetents when we find them, find ways to make more capital or streamline costs, etc.

The main difference is that, because this isn't a video game, there are no technical limits on what strategies a player can try.  Video games are full of arbitrary boundaries: the map is just so large, the buildings are this big, such and such always costs this much ...

There's no way for YOU, the player, to program the system.  But with a DM, that should be possible.  In fact, that's what makes this format in D&D a massive upgrade.  The player is the programmer.

That doesn't mean we can suspend the niggling bits, however.  A solid, reliable baseline has to be established in something very like concrete ... and that baseline has to be as simple to grasp and understand as it is in any video game.  That's why we don't want to fiddle with comparisons between food calories, soil yields and consumption.  Once we establish what a "person diet" is, we can then adjust one number to manage health benefits, famine, distribution, value, space required and so on.

We want to simplify the base factor so that we can adjust that factor to manage far more complex problems than crop yields.  This is the goal across the system.

We don't need to know the exact cubic footage of mine we've dug; we need a ratio between one miner, production of raw material and the cost to shore up what a miner can mine in a day or week. Then we can produce one number that tells us the cost and the effect at one time.  We can then rate individual miners at 0.98 "ert" [excavation rate], 1.01 or 1.05.  That helps the player decide if this miner needs to be replaced or if it isn't that big a deal.  Replacement means time training, unknown qualities in the green worker and possibly ill feelings among those who are now worried they'll be let go.  It isn't just the ert that matters.

I trust this helps put Tuesday's post in perspective.  I'd rather not write post after post about how to manage fifty different land improvements/buildings that could be emplaced ~ though that would be the goal in the long run.  A goal that, I admit, I've considered for a long time and have been making incremental movements towards.  It's only that my interest was rekindled this week by the retinue post.

9 comments:

  1. I have been using your three stats of competence, honesty and nature to great effect in my game.

    But my system is only designed for businesses in a city. I would have to redesign it for an estate if needed.

    I think finding baselines is important, but it probably won't drive much discussion. I know I haven't done the research to have a useful opinion

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  2. You're arguing for the agricultural equivalent of hit points.

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  3. I'm interested in reading about all this but don't have much to add. I'm not good at this kind of thinking. The whole concept reminds me of Age of Empires and, more recently, They Are Billions.

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  4. Hello Alexis,

    This series of posts (retinue and real estate) gave much to think about, without much to add however.

    Making such a thing into a program would indeed "limit" it, but it'd also allow for pluging it in your Trade System, which could be very nice.
    While I think that a good pre-conception would allow for maximum customization and flexibility, there'd be a need for the programmer to update things regularly to keep up with the ideas of players and DMs.

    The interaction between Players & NPCs (participants) and real estate is a very interesting aspect, but quite enormous, because it goes doubly both ways and irradiate everywhere. Players & affiliates create / impact local real estate, which in turn impact them (enabling more ressources, costing time, providing opportunities, etc.). But neighboring real estate & participants are also impacted - fear of newcomers, greed or jealousy of success, loss of manpower, etc.

    Such complexity and interconnectivity is indeed "beyond the tenacity of DMs and Players who are only interested in adventuring" - and beyond even most others I guess - while being tremendously fascinating.
    I can then see that even interested DMs would, without a clear set framework, resort to (informed) DM fiat to manage this kind of situations.

    But many of your recent (and not so recent, cf. Civ posts) developments interconnect together here, and more and more there is something coming out of the whole, a weaving waiting to happen maybe ?

    Anyway ... Great series of posts, couldn't have asked for a better use of my monthly stipend ^^

    Take care, be well.

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  5. Haggis,

    It will necessarily follow the function of those games. I've been basing concepts in my game from Civ IV for many years now:

    http://tao-dnd.blogspot.com/search/label/NTME

    This is better than my trying to make a system out of whole cloth, that would move parallel to the work done by others anyway. The thing is, however, that I can get way more gritty with my approach than these other games, adding content and detail as it's needed. Here's an example of work I was puttering about with today:

    "Road, cobbled [logistics]. Finishes out an existing rutted road with cobblestones, sand and clay, without paving (see below). Produces a hard, pitched causeway that drains in bad weather, providing a good surface for wagons, carriages and horses hooves. Surface is yet rough and is subject to necessary shoring in 6 to 12 years (equals 10% of original work). Width of 9 ft., with 2 ft. roadbed. 1 week’s labour per 1¼ chains of distance (⅛ furlong). Requires 845 cub.ft. of stones and 211 cub.ft. of sand per chain of distance."

    For Vlad's benefit, the raw materials comes out of my trade system, as do the wagons or carts to haul it; the "logistics" reference comes from my sage abilities, as the labourer has to have logistics to design the road; the total labour needed is based on Civ 4, sort of, and describes how long it would take one logistician to lay 82 feet of road (with sand, stone and mud poured and shovelled into place); of course, more labourers, faster roadbuilding.

    This is a start that is already, from my perspective, looking very interesting.

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  6. Vlad,

    I do feel that the weaving together is getting tighter all the time. Many of the additions I've made to the wiki over the last two years, and my thought processes ~ what is a game, how do we define worldbuilding, various sage abilities ~ are contributing to a gestalt that I've been watching manifest, with a great deal of interest. I seem to be touching a dozen subjects at any one time, but these things are connecting together and it is encouraging.

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  7. Alexis,

    Be assured that, at least for me, it is very exciting to see the connections appearing, the weave tightening, and the gestalt manifesting. Something resonate here, and it's profoundly gameable.

    Time must be allocated by us readers to synthetize your work for our own use and thinking. The blog allow you to deliver it easily, but not so for us to access it as a whole or when looking for something precise, afterward.
    Moreover, I follow what you write and it help bring me forward in my thinking, but once it is done I must have a "digest" to refresh it, that should be faster to read. And that must be done by me, for me.

    It is work, but needed and time-worthy - but although where to begin (the classes probably) is clear, up to where one must go is still in the mists...

    PS: Could you put some tag in all your classes ? They're a boon, but not yet easily reachable (or I failed).

    Thank you.

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  8. I've been working on a system for my players to run a dwarven mine that they liberated from the drow. When they liberated the fortress, they had to empty out all the room and re-purpose them. Drawing ideas from how you examined Civ IV, each new type of room became an improvement that they could work on, and many rooms either gave them new actions to perform, or helped prevent some negative effect. (For example, building latrines cut down the chance of disease, and building a kitchen allowed them to cook food.)

    The NPCs they rescued/hired are assumed to use 12 hours of the day for working activities, and have 12 hours of the day for themselves. The players split out their time by assigning them actions, each of which has it's own duration. Mining requires an 8 hour shift to collect 2 units of raw ore, which them has to be converted to processed ore by using a different action, etc.

    It's a combination of Civilization and the Sims, really. I've been having a lot of fun designing it, although it's far from done. The players are putting time and effort into it, although they've yet to set-up a consistent way to sell what they are creating, and turn a profit.

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  9. Excellent, Discord,

    Your players need to wagon the raw materials to a founder, or build a forge, which they can construct near the mine. This will enable them to move only the puddled metal. If they're mining gems, the ore will need to be broken and then washed, which can be done in a drum and turned by a water or wind mill. I'm working on general cost ratios for these things.

    I have done a bit of work on mining today, in fact, but you sound way in advance of where I am at the moment.

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