"I'm interested in your scary tunnel post. My players keep leaving dungeons/lairs half explored because of scary tunnels I didn't even try to make scary ha!"
I'm not saying this is the answer to Lance's troubles, but it's a beginning overall towards building a party's confidence and courage. Not because we'll assure them that they'll succeed in every battle, but because we have to give them reason to try. In essence, praise them.
We must choose our moment. We know what's coming along as the session progresses and the players do not, plus we have time to make statements when the players arrive and are finding their places at the table. We put it as lightheartedly as we can: "Say, you guys have been doing pretty well lately. That goblin lair was a tough nut to crack."
Of course, this praise must be sincere. They must actually have been doing well. Otherwise, it's hollow, and we risk being viewed as pandering and inauthentic. It's not so much that we need to invent praise to give to the party, it's that we need to evaluate their play from time to time and recognise when individuals have excelled ... and then give them the praise they've earned.
We can also, respectfully, embolden them in situations where something appears much worse than it is. Let's take the party moving through our dungeon. They've fought off the mooks and moved into those areas affected by the thermal biome ... and here, they're attacked by a huge spider, which surprises them, takes a bit of meat out of the cleric's leg (3 damage), only to be effectively stomped by, of all people, the mage (who was the nearest person, rolled a critical with her quarterstaff and did 12 pts. of damage). Unfortunately, the cleric fails the poison save—
—which in my game, causes 8 h.p. of damage per hit die of the venomous creature, at a rate of 1 h.p. per round, per hit die. In other words, the cleric starts taking 2 damage each round, as the poison courses through his body. As he's in pain, he can't concentrate on a spell; but the players have acquired four healing salves through their past efforts and rapidly apply them to counteract the poison. As a result, the cleric is hurt, the players lose some capacity to heal, plus maybe the cleric's cure light wounds spell, but everyone is alive.
Investigating, they find the spider has come through a small hole, from which warmth is exuding, about ten degrees more than the corridor. Sending the thief through the hole, he discovers a winding vertical tunnel that's easily climbable, with surfaces covered with damp moss, about 4 to 6 ft in diameter. The air within has tiny insects, and drifting pollen; and as the thief twists to work back to the party, he sees another huge spider squatting about twenty feet below, using its pincers to clean its forelegs. The thief reports this.
We can't tell the party that the shaft is critical if they want to catch the lake hag below by surprise. First of all, they don't even know there is a lake hag; and they're not blessed with knowledge of the future. They only know what they can see. From their perspective, the strange shaft looks like a good way to be killed by spiders ... and that's the only thing it appears to be good for. Now, the cleric in my game received 60 experience from the spider bite, and 320 experience from the poison damage ... and every player recieved 76 x.p. (before 10% bonus, if it applies) for just being there. I treat "experience" as "practical contact with, and observation of, facts and events." You know, like the actual definition of the word. And it's awfully practical to know what it's like to almost die from poison, or to watch someone else nearly do so.
Oh, and the mage got another 110 x.p. for killing the thing.
Not every spider is worth 870 x.p. If the spider hadn't hit the cleric at all, and the mage had then killed it, the total would only have been 110. If the cleric had made his saving throw, it would only have been 230. It's only high because the cleric would have been seriously depleted. As a 2nd level, assuming no constitution bonus (and let's say that), suppose he had 15 hit points to start. Minus 3, then minus 16, puts him at -4. That'll kill him in a lot of people's games (and thus, less experience gained), but not mine, as I use negative hit points. Still, those rules force the cleric to make a check to see if he's made unconscious at -4 h.p.; and if he is, that's quite the encumbrance burden if the party doesn't spend even more healing to make him conscious again. This is how I justify one spider being worth a whole lot, and another spider being worth very little.
So, with lots of healing lost, does the party really want to tangle with another spider?
Okay, let me back up. Remember when I said we could embolden the party, and I said we could take advantage of the session's initiation, since we know what's going to happen. We're the DM. We know all about the spider that's going to jump out ... and we're capable of guessing that someone's going to get bit (we rolled randomly to choose the cleric), and that they might blow their save (though the cleric has the best advantage there). We know about the shaft and we can be pretty sure the players will wonder where the spider came from, and that someone will scout ahead. We know they'll see the second spider. None of this is a mystery to us.
We use this information to prime the party in their favour, and ours. How? They just fought a bunch of unknown minions and they all survived. "Good job on those soggy humanoids," we say, as it's now the next running and they've all had time to get over that unexpected event. We add, "I'd hoped it might cause you to think maybe you're in over your heads, here. But you're good to go on, right? Nobody here is afraid, right?"
If we can urge them, gently, to take a stance on how brave they are, then for a few hours you can fairly count on that declaration affecting their subconscious choices. As the linked wikipedia suggests, the effect is rarely noticed by the players; they've consciously forgotten that they stated their bravery in the midst of the game ... but when the time comes to make a brave decision or not, most times they'll edge towards what they felt when they thought they were safe.
Priming works both ways. If, as DMs, we're overcritical, or we demonstrate too much doubt in the players' abilities, that can also prime the players to lose confidence, doubting themselves and feeling a strong resistance against taking risks. While priming is a powerful tool, it can also subvert the game if we're not careful what we choose to say, when making the game ready and spouting off.
As DM, our opinions carry enormous weight at the table ... much more weight than those opinions would carry if we were at a bar and talking over drinks. This is because the players habitually strive to ascertain some clue about their success in every word we speak, and in the nuance of our voice tone and body language. Our voice — strange as it may seem — has the potential to be both a positive and a negative influence on the player's willingness to take risks.
Myself, I think this factor had much less effect when we were playing as teenagers back in the day ... but only because we were less socially skilled at parsing out the words of other people, and ascribing to those words clues that would tell us whether or not we were succeeding within the relationship or with tasks in the work place. As we grow older, and virtually nothing is said straightforwardly, we adapt to a social climate where everything a person says might contain a hidden meaning. This is definitely true as a DM. I notice the effect I have when I make an off-handed comment, or when I deliberately prime the players behaviour. By merely mentioning something obscure about D&D at the beginning of a session — say, secret doors, which occur so rarely in my game that players don't search for them — I've caused a player to do something exactly at the time when I need them to do it, hours later. It's a bit spooky sometimes. And if I ask later, they'll claim they don't remember my ever mentioning secret doors. They just "felt" like this was the time to search for one. Even though they practically never do.
My answer to Lance, and anyone feeling their party is hesitant, is to suggest going over our own behaviour as DM. What are we saying, or what are we not saying, that's adjusting their bravery in the face of a scary-looking tunnel. Surely, we're not whetting their appetite enough with prospective experience or treasure; or we're giving them cause to feel they haven't the stuff to handle this tunnel; or we're making it too easy, socially, to turn hide and flee.
I don't know what that might be; I'm at my own table, and not that of others. But I feel that if I sat in and listened, I might guess pretty quickly what's happening, based on the table's set-up, the distance between the DM and the players, the voice the DM uses, where focus is being placed, and how the dialogue is being handled. Small things make big differences.
We must be careful about how remote we are ... because we're not on the hook, as the party is. And if they sense that we're taunting them, or dismissing them, or feeling above them, they'll respond with distrust. And that is something we cannot have when we run. We need the players to believe that we're every bit as fair and honest as we appear ... else they'll think, consciously or unconsciously, that it's all an act.
shades of Hook, Line and Sinker post: https://tao-dnd.blogspot.com/2018/06/hook-tale-and-sting.html
ReplyDeletehttps://tao-dnd.blogspot.com/2018/06/hook-tale-and-sting.html
ReplyDeleteI've been reading about Julius Caesar's 'motivational speeches and use them as a model whenever my kids feel like they're facing a problem in D&D, before an exam at school, or whatever. Basically, it's "You're prepared, it'll be tough, but look after yourselves and pay attention to the details and you'll come through." And they do.
ReplyDeleteI have to say, I love the war stories, and particularly the maps. Inspiring detail.
ReplyDeleteAlexis, I'm having trouble reconciling some of the concepts as I read them in the last couple of posts regarding, I'm not sure what verb to use here, managing, baiting, manipulating? None of those are quite right, but what I'm struggling with is the idea of the DM as anything other than a disinterested conduit between the players and the game world.
ReplyDeleteIn previous posts such as Playing in the Sand and The Underlying Philosophy of Worldbuilding and, my favorite, Bumper Cars, you describe the game world as uncaring and only aware of the players' characters insofar as they do things to it. As well, the DM's job is to make the world react appropriately to the character's actions and to "tend the garden" of the world ticking along doing its own thing. There's an ideal in there that the DM is "out of the loop" in terms of influencing what the players think, feel, or do.
What I'm perceiving as the disconnect is this dispassionate philosophy in the world-building and theory of running with an applied method of running in which the DM seems to be very much in that loop, reading player emotions and using descriptive inflection, body language, and showmanship to create dramatic tension or convey risk assessment. It's a kind of fourth wall problem, I guess, where the DM is cluing the players about conclusions that the players would draw if only they had more information. Perhaps it's a fundamental limitation of DMing that we simply can't know and convey as much information to the players through words as the characters would rightly have physically standing in the game world. That's a discouraging thought.
In my own game, the ideal toward which I aspire is that my deadpan description of what the characters perceive to provide everything the players can know to assess risk and reward, and try not to create unsurvivable situations by having features in the game world where the dangers cannot be sufficiently gauged until they are unavoidable. It's an ideal I am nowhere near achieving and I'm wondering now if it is an impossible goal.
Needs must that we populate the world. Needs must that the population have emotions, aspirations, needs, troubles and a potential to succeed. The "appropriate" reaction of the world must also be that the players actions are not the only thing to which the world "reacts." Therefore, there is more to the DM's job than to make the world react to the players. It must also react to itself.
ReplyDeleteIt don't think, therefore, that the world can be disinterested. In your example from Bumper Cars, the NPCs Whitebirch, Quickotter and Waterrock are very definitely NOT "disinterested." If such beings were to exist in fiction, with no party present, then their drama would contain all that my imagination could install. The game world puts the players in a position to become part of that drama ... but the drama is necessarily there, because it MUST be in any situation where humans strive against one another to achieve conflicting goals.
At each point of this series, I have worked to make the NPCs act and function in reasonable, rational ways. The nobleman's son pines for his father but nonetheless he is more interested in answers than in blind rage. The lake witch acts in a most reasonable manner to defend herself, seeing herself as "the good guy." She doesn't think she's evil. In the example of the jellies that follows the post above, I try to make the jellies behave as would be rational, given their biological nature, the environment and the party's behaviour.
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ReplyDeleteAs the DM, yes, I struggle to divorce myself from the "loop" of events, but the world cannot function as a dead fish. I am responsible for inventing Whitebirch; and as such, I take clay and make a being with a beating heart, passion and will. Whitebirch CANNOT function without my intervention. I cannot say to the party, "There is a man named Whitebirch," then step away and say nothing else. I must describe his actions, as I see that they would be ... I cannot turn to a computer, or a game rule, or the air itself to produce actions for Whitebirch, or the lake witch, or the mooks, or the spider attacking the cleric. I, the DM, must DO these things. I must decide that the spider attacks, because that's what spiders do.
This is easy with spiders, because the are primitive creatures motivated by the need to feed and occasionally to inject victims with eggs to procreate. But the lake witch is not a spider. She's highly intelligent. She may be evil, but that has been forced upon her; once, she was a princess, and unless every ounce of soul has been burned out of her, there still beats the heart of a good maiden somewhere inside her. She therefore has motivations far beyond those of a spider. How shall I not convey those emotions with descriptive inflection, body language and showmanship? Why would I not give the players every ounce of rage, suffering, hunger or mania possessing this being? How can I possibly do that with "deadpan description"?
Sterling, I meant "uncaring" in the sense of "indifference," not "without passion." The world is INDIFFERENT to the players, in that it functions outside the party's appetites or expectations of self-importance. The players are not the centre of the game universe. I'm sorry if I used the world "uncaring," but I meant only that it did not care about the players ... not that it did not care about anything. Whitebirch LOVES Quickotter. That isn't uncaring. It just doesn't fixate on what the party does or says.
Bringing us to the subjects of managing, baiting and manipulating.
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ReplyDeleteIn delivering the game, I'm bound by several outwardly and self-imposed rules. First, there are the rules of the game, in which I, as the setting's representative, must roll dice to hit, or determine the results of game mechanics, such as saving throws or ability checks. A spell cast by an NPC cannot have a greater range or endurance than once cast by a player.
Second, an element of the game cannot exist without some rational reason for it being there. I won't accept that a chimera can be kept in a cage and sold at the town market, any more than it's rational for a +1 sword to be sold there, as I consider such objects to be (a) extremely rare and thus would not be casually parted with, and (b) could not be demonstrated to be "+1" in a market setting, and therefore would more likely be a fake sword, or assumed to be fake, because how is it's veracity to be tested?
Along these same lines, a dungeon that a party could enter must have elements in it that, up front, would quickly indicate how dangerous the dungeon must be. If 1st level players can walk into it, overcome the outside defenses of a group of kobalds, then blithely roam within for a few hours and not meet anything more dangerous than a few mooks and jellies in water, then they must be in the sort of dungeon they can potentially handle. On the other hand, if the same party rolls up to a dungeon for 9th levels, and finds not kobalds, but 6 hit-die ogres led by two ogre mages and a stone giant, then they ought to get the hell out because they are in over their heads. Plus, it should have taken a month of travelling through wilderness to reach such a place, not two days from a local town along a common road. There must be hints as to how dangerous is the adventure the players are stepping into. The ogres would not be so near a civilised town; and there dungeon in the deep wilderness would not be fronted with kobalds. Reason applies. There must be some standard for where things are put.
Sterling, your own statements make it clear we're on the same page here.
Bound by these two rules, I'm absolutely free to manage, bait and manipulate the party, because the game setting WOULD. Holes, tunnels, doors, apparently unaware denizens are all very appetising to a player party ... why shouldn't they be? Why shouldn't I make them appear so, if in fact the kobalds ARE complacent and unassuming because no one has so much as set foot in their lair for a year or more? Why shouldn't I suppose that - though it's plainly just something I've made up, right? I'm making EVERYTHING up. None of it exists out of thin air.
So yes, I choose to make this creature or that, or place this object or that, to MANAGE the party forward or back, according to what should rationally and reasonably be in a such a place where the players have decided to go. I'm fully in my rights to bait them, to urge them to come on, to act as they wish, not being fully sure if they can trust the situation or not ... but I'm STILL only putting things there that are reasonably expected to be there. We expect to go to a dungeon and find a kobald sitting outside the door, guarding it. That's "bait" by itself. And if I have the kobald going to the bathroom, mumbling to itself, sword lying on the grass out of reach, when the party comes along ... what can that possibly be except "baiting"? It's my decision to put the kobald in that position. Yet, reasonably, it's not unrealistic. Kobalds have to go to the bathroom.
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ReplyDeleteMuch of the setting lends itself to such opportunities, both to tempt and to taunt the players. Choosing which happens when is definitely "managing" them; it's foolish to think otherwise, especially as it's impossible for a DM not to muddy the water. I choose to accept that my actions always do, in some capacity ... and to be AWARE of it, and CAREFUL about it, and use the fact of it in the game's favour. Refusing to acknowledge that every choice a DM makes to describe anything has an emotional effect in the party just makes the game clumsy and disrespectful of what the players are experiencing as they listen to the DM.
So, to wrap up this long comment (and thank you, Sterling, for such an engaging answer to my post), while I might want to minimise my place in the loop, the way the game is structured there is no way to make up a setting and make it breathe without constant decisions on my part for what it looks like in a given moment, or how it's going to react when the players behave. I'm always involved. Therefore, if I must be involved, then I want to give the players a decent and fair ride, one that's defensible in the long run should a player feel "manipulated."
Of course that's what I'm doing. Putting a sign on a door that reads, "REMEMBER FROED" or "BAD" is a manipulation. I say the kobalds put the sign there, but of course I did. I also put the kobalds in the tunnels, and made the tunnels, and invented the dungeon, and all the facts behind the dungeon. I began the campaign. It's all manipulation. Of course it is.
It's not manipulation to sell you something, or make you believe something you don't believe, or humiliate you. It's manipulation to make you feel a particular way; to lift your sense of self; to bolster your confidence and to reward you for sticking fast ... or give you that sense of immersion when you fail and want to try again.
You're correct in realising it's a lie, of a kind. But it's not the lie itself that's wrong, it's the lie's motivation. Artists use lies to tell the truth, while politicians use them to cover the truth up. I'm not a politician. I'm a dungeon master.
Thank you very much for the detailed and incredibly clarifying reply! I can see my thinking was wavering around the line between managing the setting to be lifelike and managing it to affect the players. I really wanted to do none of the latter, but of course that's not possible. I wish to have no stake in what they do with it, but I can't help but flavor their perceptions of it.
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