It's torture to read Mentzer. There's hardly a paragraph that doesn't stoke my ire, from his toxic interpretations of strength, intelligence, wisdom and so on to his clumsy, splattering approach to delivering game rules at random throughout his books. Reading through the famously popular scene of "Learning how to play the D&D game," I want to bang my head repeatedly on the table as he unreservely, irresponsibly primes the reader towards the worst kind of railroaded gaming, ending with the absure and insulting, "You have just played a D&D game!"
No, I have not. I've watched a hack write language imposing his actions and his choices on me, with flagrant use of the 2nd person, while making every decision in exchange for my tacit, momentary input. Vomit. Thank the fucking CHRIST I didn't read this fluffy, shit crap refuse until the 2000s.
It's indefensible. For the record, "I thought it was amazing when I was an ignorant child" is not a defense, it's evidence of the brainwashery going on here. I don't want to pull every bloody sentence and deconstruct this steaming drivel, but I could. Oh, fuck, I could.
My point being that this is a considerable obstacle towards teaching people how to be a DM. Not because they'll have ever read Mentzer, but because of this: quoting from Dennis Laffey,
"I got the Mentzer Basic set for my 11th birthday, back in 1984. I'd seen the D&D cartoon, had a few Endless Quest books (plus Choose Your Own Adventure and similar 2nd person fiction game-books), and was into fantasy and mythology ... Anyway, that birthday gift changed my life.
I remember reading the Mentzer set's player introduction. There's the little tutorial where you meet Aleena the Cleric and Bargle. It gives you a bit of railroady interactive fiction and makes you roll some dice here and there. Explains some terms as they come up.
Then there's the "choose your own adventure" tutorial. Numbered paragraphs or sections of text with CYOA type choices of section to go to lead you through a solo game. It's possible to fail. Since it's just you and the book, it's VERY easy to cheat. But again, it helps guide you through some of the game mechanics and introduces not just game terms and systems (in a watered down fashion), but also the sorts of situations you could expect as a player.
And it worked pretty well. I got it. I think I cheated on the CYOA adventure the first time I did it, but I played it a few more times until I was able to beat it fair and square."
Sorry, Dennis. I don't have no intention of diminishing your real emotions here. I read the above last night and took your words as an inspiration to look at Mentzer in application to issues I've discussing with this series. Unfortunately, I cannot get out of Mentzer what you did, because I come at this game from a very different place.
However, like you, many, many don't. Mentzer's propaganda caught on and invested itself deep into the D&D community's consciousness ... and because D&D is an apprenticeship-style education for most of its participants, what Mentzer wrote nearly 40 years ago has been perpetuated and corrupted into the abomination that is 5th edition.
Naturally, I'm a voice in the wilderness. People love and adore Mentzer's work for those examples Dennis gave, and more than a few are scratching their heads now (if they're even still reading) as to what the hell is my problem with this:
"It's hard to run with the cleric across your shoulder, but you finally get back just as the sun goes down. Once there, you take her body to the church. It's too late to help her, but they can give her a proper burial. They thank you for your kindness, and offer a small bottle as a reward."
Wow, you tried to save her and you couldn't. And the church was so moved by your action that they gave up something of theirs for you. Isn't that wonderful?
Sigh.
The #1 action of a good party is to ask questions. During an average game, outside of combat, I field between 3-5 questions a minute, maybe more. The DM's #1 action is to answer questions. THIS is the game. The players ask, the DM answers. The players ask, the DM answers. This goes on all night.
Mentzer's "example" has no questions; because it cannot. It's a story, which D&D is not. The framework of the example totally denies the possibility of player expression, because of the format. And the game IS player expression. So how exactly have we played a D&D game?
And for that matter, what does the passage teach DMs? Remember, the people who actually have to invent all this? It doesn't. At all. Because Mentzer definitely isn't interested in teaching you how to DM. The module will DM you. This passage is teaching you how to obey a module.
You're a young, impressionable child, reading this, being educated to depend on modules ... and decades later that idea remains unsurfaced in your approach to the game. So you think this is okay. You buy some modules, play with your friends, have fun ... so it's okay. You meet others, they have modules which they run, and soon enough it's time to go to college and still it hasn't occurred to you that nothing you've read has ever seemingly been written for specifically DMing the game. 2e comes along, imposes it's universal metric which makes writing modules — and balancing modules for different party strengths — easier. 3rd comes along and drenches the players with opportunities and possibilities, but what does it do for the DM? Nothing ... except give the DM more to memorise. Each step along the way, there's always more and more for the player, but for the DM? We have this module. Run this module. We have lots of modules. We'd prefer you run it as is. Sure, you can rewrite it as you please ... but we're not going to help you do that. We're not going to give you advice, hell no.
I started to seriously drop out of the D&D community by 1985. I had my game, I was working full time as a statistical clerk making absurd amounts of money ... and the whole vibe I was getting from others was just ... ech. I'd pretty much learned how to run tolerably well. My best player at the time, who was deeply invested in the community still, told me around 1989 that I was the best DM he'd ever known ... and as he'd grown up in Chicago in the 1970s, he'd met Gygax and Arneson personally. So I respected that compliment ... but honestly, I thought I was just doing what a lot of others were doing. After all, one player has a pretty limited experience, this being long before the internet.
There's something to be said about my dropping out. I didn't buy modules. I had one party, so it's not like I could run the Keep on the Borderlands multiple times. I learned how to write. I learned how to perform on a stage. I'd started in the debate club and moved into campus politics, so I knew how to produce a defending argument. That was strengthened by my classics degree. And through it all, I operated in a vacuum. No contact, with anyone else, with regards to D&D ... for nearly 15 years.
So, I have zero nostalgic feelings about any part of D&D, period. Not about AD&D, not about Basic, which I played for about four months before we all switched to 1st, not about modules, not about the forgotten realms books, not about anything. Long before I stepped forward into the D&D community again, I'd so absolutely broken up every system I'd encountered that I had as much respect for them as a renovator has for the house he bought vs. the house he's rebuilt.
Those who taught me how to DM all did so in '79 and the early 80s ... and apparently then went on DMing in exactly the same way for the next forty years. They waited for others to tell them what to change and what to adopt. Essentially, they let others into their house, allowing repairs to made that broke the plumbing, broke the heating, weakened the foundation, fouled the wiring and — upon departing — left holes in every wall and scratched the floors beyond repair. Because that was easier than making the repairs personally.
And now I read homeowner after homeowner with a house like this happily going on youtube and telling me, "It's GREAT!"
Definitely an obstacle.
Ask yourself, from Mentzer's observations on page 2: do you want your player to "be like an actor," imagining they are someone else and pretending to be that character? Do you want your player to be "a strong hero, a famous but poor fighter"? Does that support a vivid, flexible campaign? Do you want the party to "be playing different roles and talking together as if [they] were the characters"? Have you experienced where that goes as a DM? Do you want the players thinking that the game is "looking for monsters and treasure" with the result that "The more you find, the more powerful and famous you become"? Is that how the setting works for you? That despite the total lack of witnesses, when a group of rich pillagers and killers show up in a town covered in dust and blood, wounded, but with tons of money ... everyone automatically makes them beloved celebrities? Really?
Is the equipment the party needs "very similar to what you would carry when camping"? Is the choice to take weapons and armour, in order to invade an underground lair, properly described as "protection"?
Each description is there to blow right past any real issue a nuanced, thinking person would have with the activities supported and condoned by the work. And the fall-out? That's the DM's problem. Is it any wonder that DMs have, for a long time, struggled with the concept of parties who act like murder-hobos ... when the modules that are made, the language that is used, the pandering position that's taken, encourages this.
I keep reading how the "answer" is to remove the reward system for treasure; that's not the answer. The answer is to devise better adventures, ones in which the comfort level of the participant is challenged realistically, instead of enabling the players to be monsters.
I don't disagree with anything you've said about Mentzer's shit writing. But my experience as a young lad was very similar to Dennis'. I had played a couple of times with some older kids in the neighborhood using 1e AD&D, so I generally knew how the game was played but not in any great detail. Mentzer's edition was the first rulebooks I owned myself (I purchased the basic set not even understanding that there was a difference between Mentzer and AD&D). And I would have to agree with Dennis that Mentzer's basic set was life changing for me...not because it was good writing or that it did a good job of teaching me the game. But it was my gateway drug into what blossomed into a lifelong passion (I moved to AD&D within 2 years of buying Mentzer, and play my own Frankensteined version today).
ReplyDeleteSo, while I stand by my comment that Mentzer's rules were life-changing for me, in hindsight I think I became a halfway decent D&D player and DM in spite of Mentzer, instead of because of him. I have no desire to go back and play that edition after 30+ years, but I do owe it a debt of gratitude.
Zilifant,
ReplyDeleteCouple what you had to unlearn with the number of people you influenced from the beginning of your play, before you began to move away from Mentzer ... people who had to unlearn what you taught them, after they in turn taught other people, who may never have unlearned before they taught others, and so on, and so on ...
This is the toxic element that underlies the whole system. While the wise may eventually catch on, how many of the unwise are poisoned first?
I don't disagree with you, maybe your extreme rhetoric is necessary to persuade some that the book/author they practically worship is not worth their devotion.
ReplyDeleteFor me, even though you could say I grew up on mentzer, I dont hold those books in such a high position. I had been playing for years before I even really read them, so the tutorial section was always more of a curiosity to me than anything else.
These days I often seriously contemplate retreating to a RAW approach for my game, if for nothing else than being able to tell people I run this specific edition. And I go through my rules thinking I would be okay without this or that houserule, but then I come across one which I'll never go back on, and another, and really see no point in the endeavor because if I'm going to keep these houserules over here, then I might as well keep them all. Old rule books or modules have no great value just because they are old despite what many 'grognards' are claiming.
Ah, Mentzer.
ReplyDeleteYour statements about the importance of asking (and answering) questions is a good one...and something I haven't considered. I might even be willing to take this a bit farther: that a party that doesn't ask questions...or the DM that finds him/herself ASKING the questions of the party...can indicate a lack of quality and/or inexperience on the part of the participants. Something there (maybe) to explore and elaborate upon.
Re-reading Moldvay's sample of play (B59-B60)...the page that demonstrated how to run a game and provided the earliest foundation for my style of play...I see a LOT of questions being asked of the DM by the players (some explicit, some implicit: if a person declares they're 'searching for traps,' the implicit question is 'are there traps here?').
Considering my most recent game session (Friday) I can see a sharp divide between exploration my players are experienced/competent in (dungeon exploration) and not (town/cultural exploration) if I simply consider the amount of questions they were asking. Very interesting...and this probably says quite a bit about how I DM these different aspects of the game.
Yes, something I'll have to ponder on.
I've taken my potshots at Mentzer in the past, so I won't add any more vitriol here. Besides, I've mellowed somewhat: I sincerely doubt that Mentzer was TRYING to "poison the well" and pass down a legacy of illusionism and systemically terribly game play for multiple generations. Probably Barry Goldwater didn't realize he'd be setting the table for the rise of Donald Trump in this country (in fact, given his 1987 statements about the Republican party being taken over by a "bunch of kooks"...kooks he helped cultivate...it seems clear he was as surprised by anyone of what his "new conservatism" had wrought). So, you know, I'm less inclined to heap ALL THE SINS on the guy's head.
But, yeah, the root of the problem (Mentzer's book) probably needs to pulled up and tossed on the fire so that it doesn't do any further damage.
RE Nostalgia Bias, Adventure Modules, & Better DMing
World building is hard work. Well, maybe not "hard," but certainly harder than the work involved in prepping the vast majority of games folks play.
It's easier (i.e. "less hard") to be lazy. Nostalgia is an easy (i.e. lazy) defense used to justify taking the easy (i.e. lazy) road to game play.
Unfortunately (fortunately?) the easy road seldom, if ever, provides lasting satisfaction.
Sorry for the late reply. For some reason, your blog isn't popping up on my blog feed anymore.
ReplyDeleteNo offense taken at this at all. Much like Zilifant, I agree that Mentzer's writing, especially in those introductory tutorials, is horrible. And the railroad is not great. But how else would one go about teaching someone from just the book? It's not a very interactive medium, after all.
I guess I was lucky that my family was poor (small family farming in the 80s was not the path to fame and fortune!). I never had any modules, aside from Isle of Dread when I got the Expert Set a year later, until I was in high school. And pretty soon after I had run my friends through the sample starter adventure in the Mentzer DM book, I was making my own dungeons. And I improved.
So while I still am thankful that I had the Mentzer sets to teach me the game, I agree that they are not ideal, unless one has no other way to learn.