Tuesday, June 30, 2020

The House that P.F. Built

"A few things that frustrate me as a player and as a DM is when people are hypocritical about it [the rules] or pretend to forget a penalty, or arguing specifically to get some kind of advantage on the table.  When you think about a lawyer, when people complain about lawyers, they are just saying whatever they have to say to get the thing that they want.  They don't actually care about the rules at all.  If, let's say, someone wanted to make 12 attacks on their turn ... if there's some home brew rules that lets them do that, those are the ones they're going to be using.  If it's the 'rule of cool,' that's what they're using.  I've even seen people argue for rules that would completely break the game just to get some bonuses.  And that's a big part of the reason why people get frustrated with home brew rules.  Which I love, but you got to be very careful about it, because you can lead to this spotty, sometimes-we're-doing-it-this-way, sometimes-we're-doing-it-another-way, where players have to ask permission before everything.  Or they have to ask, 'How are we doing it this time?'  It's confusing.  They don't know.  So they have to ask.
"What you have to understand is that any time you as a player are asking for some exception to the rules, you're giving the DM more work to do, because now he has to think about the long-term ramifications of the 'new system.'  Which most DMs are happy to do, because we like having new things that the players are creating and introducing it into the system.  But then, you also get into rules haggling, where the DM thinks that your flaming hands should really be five extra damage and the player thinks they should be 50, and we have to slowly haggle our way down to 25, and that now the DM realizes that he's made a horrendous mid-game call, 'What was I thinking!'  ~ and wants to retcon it, but the player's pissed off because he's managed to finagle out of the DM this broken ability, and it gets taken away from him.  It's like reversed Christmas, and now he's not happy, the DMs not happy; now everyone's not happy.
"There's other debates that come up when it comes to mistakes.  How do you fix problems when they come up?  Do you fix problems?  Let's say that someone rolls an attack, and they miss.  Then ... just after they attack, they see that they had Advantage.  Some players will see that it's a miss, and then pick up their dice and then roll again, therefore getting three rolls, when really if it was a Reversed, if they had hit, and it was an Advantage, they just keep the hit.  Something like that is really hard to catch, because you as the DM have to be really observant at keeping an eye on the players, and you already got a lot of stuff that you're doing to keep track of!  You don't want to be watching the players dice rolls!
"Or let's say, I'm the DM, I roll an attack.  It's a hit, does damage.  Three turns later, the player sees that I had Disadvantage on the roll.  Do we retcon that hit three turns ago, re-rolling it, or do we play it as is?  Whatever you decide is fine, the issue comes in when there's hypocrisy ~ where if the situation were reversed, the player wouldn't want to re-roll all the hits.  It can be really frustrating when the player rolls, it's wrong, you correct them, and they just shrug and go, "Oh well, maybe next time."  And it's literally their turn.  Okay, you can fix it right now!  It's hard to catch exactly because it's inconsistency that's the issue, and it doesn't come from one encounter.  It comes from multiple encounters, and the discrepancies between them.  And it sucks, because you as the DM find one problem, and you fix it and then nine others crop ... and it's ... it's tiring to keep on top of it.
"I came here on a Friday night to roll dice and have fun.  I didn't sign up to be 'The Dad.'  And a solution, if its really bad, is sadly, 'Maybe not play with that group?'  Because if you correct them and it just gets worse, it's impossible to keep up with it.  You can never compete with that.  It can get pretty bad at times.  There was another group I had where they wouldn't tell me stuff, like if their character was poisoned, or if an effect had ended, and we'd find out, and they don't want to retcon that stuff because they didn't want to get hurt, or they didn't want to have some kind of a penalty, and sometimes, there would even be people who would blame the DM as well, in order to kind of get out of trouble, and be like, 'You're supposed to be keeping track of my h.p. and spell slots and stuff as well!'
"Sometimes it's an honest mistake.  You know.  It's tough.  I get it.  You got a lot of stuff going on.  Plus there's inconsistency between the player and DM.  That can be a nightmare, like with the 'rule of cool.'  The player wants to jump up 500 feet in the air and punch the dragon in the balls three times before ripping his head off.  Okay, fine.  But if the DM wants to have an enemy jump over to him?  Oh, no!  Suddenly, we're rules-as-written and we gotta stop the game to look up long jump and high jump limits for this bugbear ~ and what about the ceiling?  You can't long jump if the ceiling's short ..."
Puffin Forrest, D&D Discussion: Rules Lawyering Video, 02:12 to 06:45


Sigh.

Feel free to carp at my decision to copy out all this.  I really felt the thing needed to be viewed as a whole.  As a monolith, if you will.

My first thought was to write this out, then write a paragraph pretending to quit D&D, publish the post and not say anything for a day.

My second was to put a number (*) next to everything that I find toxic in the rant, and then deal with those things one by one.  But I could write a thousand word post on about 40 things here ... so I won't do that, either.

Gawd.  Just look at this.  The video, published in Mar 2020, has 459,447 views as I write this.  It has 3,234 comments, most of them positive and liking the video.  There are 27K likes.  There are 251 dislikes.

This is the state of D&D.

People (including readers here) like the above because they identify with it.  As they listen to the video, or read the above, they're thinking, "Shit, I hate when that happens," and "Oh yeah, oh yeah, that's a thing."  And they relate to Puffin when he sounds tired and exhausted with it all, and expresses his empathy, since he and the readers have All Been There and there's a powerful sentiment of "Hey, what are you going to do?  That's what it's like."

On the other hand ...

I relate to none of it.  None.  My players don't act like this, my rules don't work like this, none of these issues ever arise in my game (except, maybe once every three or four sessions, the retcon thing, but it's a two-second fix and no one cares).  I experience none of this angst, frustration, feelings of something being impossible or even hard.  And watching/reading the above, I feel like a particle physicist in a room with 4th graders heatedly arguing the structure of the atom to where they're coming to blows ... and I'm thinking, "Don't say anything.  Don't say anything.  Don't bother.  They'll get older.  They'll understand later."

Except, in this case, they won't.  These are adults.

Think about it a moment.  Suppose you could make All of the above just "go away."  Fingersnap.  Gone.  What would your game be like then?

I stopped watching P.F.'s videos a couple of years ago from exhaustion.  In tone, voice, choice of words, apparent empathy, he seems like a somewhat nice fellow.  In terms of D&D, he is a complete fucking idiot.  As are the people who subscribe to his videos and approve of his content ... solely because they have bought into a premise that D&D works according to the dictates and structure presented in P.F.'s videos ~ which are a reflection of tens of thousands of gaming tables, influenced by an equal number of dictates, sentimentalities, creative decisions and corporate interventions that have been ongoing for 40+ years.  People, by and large, truly believe that the maelstrom described by P.F. is impossible to avoid.  Rules always suck, management of the rules is always beyond the DM, players are cats and can never be herded, etcetera.  You just have to suck it up, put up with all the shit, deal with it as best you can, get a hug when you need it and ~ when the time comes and you're ready ~ you'll just put it down, turn your back on it and probably never play the game again.

My frustration is that all of that is bullshit.  P.F.'s struggles are the results of bad choices, enabling, incompetence, cognitive bias, egregious organizational design, a resistance to processes and a host of personal failings related to poor self-esteem and an unwillingness to accept responsibility over and for other people.  These are deeper problems than the game.  P.F. lives in the house that P.F. built ~ and instead of looking at the disastrous catastrophe of a living space that it is, his guiding principle is to rant and rave that this is the only kind of house that can be built.  So says the numbers-popular youtube expert, talking to other people with the same basic problems.  Jeebus ... this post ought to be called the Pied Piper.

Rather than holding up examples of shitty, shitty gameplay and seeking counselling from the mob on all the personal problems associated with bad rules, bad design, bad running, bad players and bad thinking, I'd far rather see an example of something to strive towards.  Gawd knows I've tried.  But I'm just a miserable curmudgeon arguing my "one true way" in a swamp of people who don't hesitate to tell me how they "know better," as they defend people on the internet who cry in their beer about how sad and difficult and trialsome it is to be an unappreciated DM in an unappreciated game.

A curmudgeon with a game that works exceedingly well, with behaved, excited, anxious players who unerringly come around to play and have fun.

What the hell do I know?

12 comments:

  1. First I'm hearing of PF.

    Has he ever thought to man up, learn the rules, figure out what's going wrong, and kick players who don't respect the table?

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  2. He also had a player whose thief kept stealing from the party, got killed by his exasperated companions, and instantly rolled a more mischievous thief with the express intent to "not get caught this time" - without anyone at the table saying a word.

    If P.F.'s idea of DMing is being that loser uncle that supports you in all your bad life choices, he deserves every headache his unreined "rule of cool" brings him.

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  3. He hasn't, the 3,000 commenters he has haven't, and the 27,000 people who liked the video clearly haven't. I call that a problem.

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  4. yeah, instinctively I want to feel sympathetic for him, but then every scenario he described I can contribute to his inability to accept the role of DM or a lack of trust between him and his players(which is really the same thing), which leads me to conclude he doesn't actually want to be the DM. He is one of those types that DMs because nobody else will.


    I sometimes watch his story videos because I find them funny, not that the story is ever funny, but it is fun to make fun of the story. Anytime he gives his opinion on DMing or the rules I stop watching.

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  5. He doesn't want to be DM but he DOES like the notoriety that comes with 722K followers ...

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  6. I have never heard of this individual nor his channel. Never ever.

    Where did you find this person? For that matter, how did hundreds of thousands find him?

    I must be really bad at searching stuff on the internet.

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  7. Despite the sentiments of the Hundreds of people who have heard of me, I do make an effort to find out what's going on throughout the internet.

    I wrote about this guy on this post in 2018:

    https://tao-dnd.blogspot.com/2018/03/the-apprentice-systems-yield.html

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  8. You have mentioned the problem here several times. Newer rules systems don't teach players how to DM. The examples they follow are bad examples of how to play.

    A second problem comes from DM driven plots. This puts the onus for fun being put in the lap of the DM. It also reduces the amount of player responsibility.

    Fear of confrontation and a lack of basic human communication skills adds to the problem. Heaven forbid you have a table rule that you don't steal from other players, or openly discus the issue at the table with all of the players.

    Finally, with the focus on `builds` and feats there is a built in pressure for players to get to use the mechanical bonus they planned for. Instead of dealing with the game fiction, it becomes a game of maximizing die rolls. Nothing wrong withstrategy, but my players and I get a lot more out of emergent play from interacting with the world within the game fiction.

    I understand your frustration, but the whole horse water thing. There are posts out there that have begun to look at making changes to 5e to emulate other types of play. It's not all doom and gloom. It's sad to see people in self caused misery, but with everything else going on, discomfort playing pretend is not the end of the world.

    Meanwhile I keep running multiple parties through my BX clone sandbox, trying new things and creating fun with my players, rewarding good play and punishing bad play within the logic of the game world. This is how I deal with it, one new player at a time.

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  9. I guess I just...don't.

    I vaguely remember this post in the past, but I dob't think I followed the links at the time. While I'm *tempted* to follow the link on this one and just see what "Puffin" is all about, I know that it will probably do nothing but raise my ire. And I don't need any more raised ire these days than I already get.

    [do you ever watch CNN? With my wife home all the time...because of her job...I've had it going at least a couple-four hours every day for the last, what, four months? Oh my...]

    Recently, I came across a random blog whose "question of the moment" I felt (for God knows what narcissistic reason) required my two cents in the comment, and I ended up getting into an asinine back-and-forth...not with the blogger, but with some random commentator who feels D&D is supposed to be used to tell stories. Oh my sweet Jesus. Puffin is only one end of the spectrum when it comes to the idiocy this game seems to generate (on a consistent basis)...there's a whole 'nother end that prompts an equal amount of head shaking.

    [in case you're curious: https://themichlinguide.wordpress.com/2020/06/20/dd-and-player-agency-old-school-versus-new/#comments]

    ReplyDelete
  10. I have watched a few more videos since yesterday. Now it seems to me that this fellow has at least an inkling, or a vague reminiscence, of how the game should be played, and that the malaise that transpires from his stories comes from that sliver of self-awareness. Pathological fear of confrontation may well be the root of his problems. A DM afflicted with this condition cannot do a good job unless all his players share that same trait, or they are grateful enough that they are willing to rein in their ego, along with any urge to argue with the referee. As is the case with any endeavour that requires other people to behave in a certain predetermined way, he should just quit.

    OTOH, again self-pity and half-decent cartoon videos have brought him 700k+ subscribers, so...

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  11. I've seen at least 1 of his videos. I found it somewhat funny, at first, but I quickly lost any feeling of familiarity with his discourse. Well, almost, because I've read about his problems online, on forums and blog posts and such, but not in my games. So I've left it at "Ah, he's in the US, he's playing in the game stores / cons / whatever, must be why he has those problems".
    Never occured to me he maybe built his hell pit himself. Or that it was what you were speaking about, Alexis. I'm quite slow at times, but this has given me another piece to the puzzle, thank you.

    (His seems to be a famous hell pit, however, but I wouldn't exchange my games for any of that.)

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  12. I just wanted to say that this is a really excellent post. It highlights, if not a frustration, then certainly a common bewilderment among those GMs who just view such problems as entirely trivial to deal with or entirely out-of-scope of what is "normal".

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