Thursday, March 11, 2021

Player Character Non-professional Skills

Time to pick this up again.

Page 12 of the original DMG proposed a simple rule that became structurally intrinsic to my campaign, remembering that for me, a "campaign" is a full-on functioning world, providing a deep, resonant setting and structured logic enabling the players to innovate and self-build their own milieu.  I appreciate that many DMs will argue that they just want to play a "game," that they don't want to spend that much time prepping their sessions or their campaign, and that they don't see the point in all this worldbuilding.  Contrary to their point of view, for the players to be thoroughly invested, the game's interface MUST include a means for the PLAYER to prep for the session, and for the PLAYER to prep the campaign, in ways that push the DM to respond to what the player makes and what the player wants, rather than the "traditional reverse", which is all we ever see in most campaigns.

In my previous steady rewrite of the DMG, the content has largely paralleled my own campaign.  There may be quibbling about when the dice are used, but my use of dice more or less remains close to the original game's intent.  I maintain the old rolling of ability scores; I can see the benefit of using battle maps and representations on those maps.  However, where it comes to "non-professional skills," the book and I totally depart company.  

For one thing, all of the "skills" listed here are professions.  All of them require considerable time to learn and excel at; no one can spend a few weeks learning how to become a miner or a tailor.  These professions take years to learn well enough that an individual can employ the many skills involved with each competently.  "Fisher" and "farmer" aren't "skills" ... they are occupations that incorporate hundreds of skills, none of which are listed in the DMG or even proposed.  That failing in particular was acutely felt by me and my players whenever we spoke about this list: what on earth was the point in saying that the player was an armourer, a gambler or a trader, without also providing applications to these labels?  Presumedly, Gygax did not think it worth the time; perhaps he felt that we could go to a library and look up what exactly a forester or a husbandman did.  Of course we could do that — but since no book would explain how these things would work IN GAME, it was entirely worthless to include any reference, period.

As such, none of the campaigns I played in used the list.  For a long time, not knowing what to do with it, I'd dutifully roll the result out with a wait and see approach — maybe, one day we'd figure it out.  Later on, I added more professions.  Steadily, I shaped in vague terms what a player could do ... and began to think on the problem, how do characters even get these skills, player and non-player alike?

What with things based on an historical period, we know that farmers gave birth to farmers and merchants gave birth to merchants.  Lateral movement between professions occurred when a boy was adopted by others, not because his farming father decided to become a merchant.  People were legally tied to the land, or to guilds, or deliberately kept out of organisations, much like you or I cannot join many associations or clubs because we don't have enough money in the bank, or we're just not the right kind of people.  The rules then were far more draconian; even if you had the money to buy products and carry them elsewhere, you would still be denied entry to a town because you didn't have permission to sell here, or because you did not belong to the baker's guild in this town, though you might belong to a baker's guild elsewhere.  These hoops were designed to force you to follow in the footsteps of your father, because the upper echelons didn't want competition.  That didn't change until so much land and opportunity became available, through the discovery of new worlds and new trade routes, that the wealthy couldn't maintain their hegemony.

Calling these skills non-professional implies that the character classes, "cleric," "fighter," "thief" and so on are professions, which they're not.  Religious persons do not self-identify as "religious persons," but as priests, friars, teachers, deacons and a host of other professions based on who manages, meets & greets, handles the money, performs what services within the religion's heirarchy and so on.  No one has ever put on their resume, "fighter."  Fighting is a set of skills, not a profession.  They think of themselves as soldiers, guards, lancers, marines and a long list of names associated with specific jobs.  Outsiders may think of a group of persons as thieves, assassins or monks, but that is not what they call themselves, as evidenced by names like "cutpurse," "burglar" or "forger," which are all about stealing but each having totally different skill-sets.  Monks do not call themselves "monks" ... they call themselves Buddhists, Jains, Cistercians, Franciscans ... in short, by the set of rules they personally accept as their path to enlightenment.  Paladins aren't "paladins."  They're knights, crusaders, peers ... AND soldiers, noblemen and such.  The word doesn't appear in English until 1592, and comes from the French word that means "of the palace."  It only means what we think it means when we speak of D&D; it is a convenient word picked by Gygax and crew that has become a convenience, but is not accurate to anything historical.

The heading, then, deliberately calls things that ARE professions "non-professional," and things that AREN'T professions "professional."  Gawd, is it any wonder we were soon immersed in people pulling words out of a thesaurus to make new D&D classes, since obviously a magic-user isn't a witch, a necromancer or a sorceror.  Shoot me, please.

We didn't need more classes, we needed a rational skills list that could be employed by players in the campaign ... as evidenced by 2nd Edition's decision to do exactly that, because the demand was there and needed addressing.  Unfortunately, while the skills list was fairly comprehensive, the scholarship behind them was utterly lacking, so that every skill was seen as a kind of saving throw determining success.  I do not need to roll a die to write this post.  Nor do I need to roll a die to make this sentence grammatically correct.  Astronomers very rarely fail to have perfect knowledge of pre-telescope astronomy; so what is the "check" for?  Gaming, obviously.  The designers, having no concept of how D&D worked or even how skills worked, turned them into a silly game that subverted any value they might have had ... and the pattern was picked up by 3rd Edition with glorious incomprehension.

It's self-evident why this didn't work, to me at least.  A game's random generating functions cannot overwhelm the predictability of the game.  Randomly rolling snake eyes or box cars playing Monopoly, though very different numbers, is mitigated by the relative slight difference in the effective results.  You're standing on Connecticut Avenue, and the full scope of results will land you anywhere between St. Charles Place and Kentucky.  The difference in price between those properties is only $80 (St. Charles, $140 and Kentucky, $220).  Unfortunately, D&D checks do not offer slivers of success, but total success vs. either total failure or partial failure.  The "greyer" the partial flavour, and the more kinds of partial flavour, the more practical the die roll becomes for a game.

Combat presumes that in most cases, you won't die in one round; low-level combats in my game typically last for no more than 8 or 9 rounds, and then only if the baddies don't go down more quickly.  Typically, it takes at least 8 to 9 rounds to kill a party; this gives them time to explore strategies and decide how much of their full strength they want to reserve for a later fight.  As turn 7 passes, with the players still doing poorly, the party stops counting on swings and starts going all-in with their magic and one-shot options.

2nd Edition and 3rd Edition systems didn't account for any greyness; and constant, inconsistent pass/fail results forced players not to rely on skills, except when failure didn't matter; and if it didn't matter, it didn't add to the game, so why have the system?  Only the fluff-lovers could embrace a system that worked inconsistently when it was really needed and didn't provide meaningful, trustworthy game play ... and it is always the fluff-lovers still who defend those systems (or similar systems found in later editions).

Full disclosure, I have similar checks in my game.  I also treat them as "saving throws" ... but as Pandred pointed out a couple of weeks ago, rolls against these things are rare, and CAN be avoided if the players take steps to protect themselves, or don't take risks.  This is different from a skill roll, such as Lore, that isn't actually needed for the game being presented.  Lore is frosting; and if we don't have it, meh.  We still have the cake, that being the actual campaign, and what we don't know about the lore and need to know, the DM will eventually provide.

A skill set that provides game flavour has to also be reliable ... as reliable as knowing that when you buy food to keep you from starving, there's no die roll to determine if it does.  Generally, games don't roll dice to see if the horse will carry you to the next town, or if the rope can be let down from a wall to help you up.  If we did roll for these things, we'd quickly see players stop using horses and ropes.  Players organize their strategies on things they don't have to roll dice to accomplish ... and while there is a sick conception that giving players skill sets that don't need rolls would make them "too powerful," truth is that the more consistent, reliable functions the game offers, the more opportunities and dimensions the game offers.

This post is long enough for the present; let's come around back to where the skills come from with the next post.

11 comments:

  1. This is fascinating reading (your post, I mean). Even though I am trying hard to hew close to the AD&D rules of late, I am maddeningly consistent in failing to remember rolling for “Secondary Skills.” Probably because: in the long run they don’t matter, given their lack of explanation.

    You know, I’ve often championed classes as archetypes or “classifications” of adventurer rather than professions, but have failed to consider any particular associated profession for them (or, rather, the only profession I’ve considered is “wandering adventurer”). What would be the differences between a necromancer and a sorcerer? Or between a burglar and a bandit? This is an incredibly helpful frame of mind to put the ol brain into...I’ve got to start working on that as I develop my world!

    Thanks.
    : )

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  2. JB, unlike a burglar and a bandit, whose professions are accounted for in endless texts, plus non-fictional and fictional accounts, the difference between "necromancer" and "sorcerer" are linguistic anomalies resulting from humans speaking different languages, and NOT from these things having defined characteristics.

    Necromancer comes from the 14th century french word "nigromancie," meaning "one who communicates with the dead. Sorcerer comes from Spanish "sortero" and Italian "sortiere," meaning a "conjurer of evil spirits" which meant, in the parlance of the day, speaking with the dead. If we didn't have more than one language to draw from, we wouldn't have these two different words for the same thing; and if we were FRENCH and not ENGLISH, we wouldn't see any reason why we should.

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  3. Vis a vis the creation of multiple character classes out of "magic users," cutting a pie into more pieces doesn't create more pie, it just makes chintzier portions.

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  4. Now, how would you say that compares then in the use of Magic User and Illusionist? It's all well and good to have Clerics and Druids be different, but would you say that the Illusionist is a chintzy piece of the M-U pie?

    If not, what difference does it make to split the hair again and make a Necromancer?

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  5. Yeah, that's the right question.

    I've tried hard to separate the illusionist from the mage in spells and outlook, and in the sage abilities besides. The spell list for my illusionist is at least 70% unique from the mage; the druid and cleric also share spells to about that degree. My mage is a scientist; my illusionist, a dreamer. My mage has applied magic that depends mostly on the four elements. My illusionist has magic that requires an intelligence as a target. My daughter has often said that running an illusionist (her favourite class) is troublesome because so many of the spells requires the target to have eyeballs. Mage spells don't have that problem.

    I've seen takes on witches, necromancers and sorcerers, and they don't have anything like this kind of distinction. They're not starkly different from the mage; they just have different spells, which ALSO borrow from either the illusionist or the mage characteristics I've just described. Now, if someone invents a class that casts magic that DOESN'T depend on Religion, Nature, Science or Mind, I'm ready to consider it's addition. What does that leave us? The illusionist mucks with reality and mind; the mage and druid with space; the cleric with soul; all of them deal with power; that just leaves time, of the Infinity Stones. Anyone care to introduce another?

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  6. Having had some hours to think about it Pandred, I feel I should also point out that AD&D made an utter hash of making the illusionist class. Except for the bard, no other class in the original books deserves as much criticism as the illusionist as written. I only use the class on account of the changes I've made, getting rid of spells that don't work, and adding specific alternatives designed to create a non-mage class that casts its own kind of magic.

    I must admit, given the dearth of 5th-7th level spells I've so far created, to supplant the dreck supplied in the original Players Handbook, I don't think I've accomplished the task of making the illusionist fully legitimate. Not yet.

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  7. My understanding of the development of the Illusionist class was that it was seen as a type of specialized mage. If I remember correctly it was first introduced in an issue of Dragon magazine as such. The thing I see a potential space for is an arcane magic user who gains power not from intellectual study, but from some kind of inborn talent. Or possibly from making bargains with demonic entities, although I suppose that could just be viewed as a cleric who worships an evil deity.

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  8. How does it make any difference WHERE the power comes from? How am I supposed to roleplay an "inborn talent" in a way different from a "learned talent"? The talent is a talent, no matter where it came from. Joey, you're inventing an idea that might work in a novel, with you as the writer, but its a dead loss as a template for character design. It's a flat, two-dimensional proposal that offers little flexibility and nothing in terms of the players constructing their own direction.

    I wish people could realise that while some idea may sound good at the outset, if it isn't fleshed out beyond some a mere explanation phrase, it's not really a good idea for a GAME mechanic.

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  9. Gonna be honest, getting some kind of external entity to fuel your spells, apart from muscling into Cleric/Druidic turf, is something that I'd vastly prefer were handled in a way that had nothing to do with class, because it doesn't make any sense for mages.

    If you want to get faeries or demons to boost your magic power I am totally down, but if there's not real, terrible cost associated with it then as far as I'm concerned you're just chasing the fantasy of being the most special special there ever was, which has no place in a game that has to be played with other human beings.

    But it would be something of interest to me if a patron came to the Juvenis game, for instance, perhaps those Svirfneblin, and offered us access to magic way beyond our normal capacity but at some horrible price. We have to kidnap some nearby lord's infant son and swap them with a changeling or something. A real question of what we're willing to do to "cheat the system".

    That's something that's interesting to the game. Way cooler than "Oh, yeah, that's our friend Steve the Warlock. I guess he works for the devil or something? I don't know, it never comes up, he just broods sometimes. His spells aren't any better than Jeff the Wizard, so I can't really figure out why it matters, but his soul I guess."

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  10. For me, the secondary skills / proficiencies design is the biggest problem in the game. It's what drove me to 2nd edition and it's what I continue to try to better nail down. It's not just this game either, I fight with the Traveller skills system as well. I understand where you've landed on this subject, Alexis, and that design has a lot to recommend it. It is, as it should be, tightly bound with the setting in which its employed and as it is such a large body of rules when properly done, a huge undertaking that every DM must take on largely on his own.

    It's surprising to me that a discussion about the classes and what separates class from skills is what came out as the important topic for so many readers!

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  11. That's pretty much how I feel about it, Pandred.

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