tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post957168432206487431..comments2023-10-14T03:58:59.333-06:00Comments on The Tao of D&D: Monks Can Be EvilAlexis Smolenskhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-38144361796167175402017-02-28T09:46:50.560-07:002017-02-28T09:46:50.560-07:00I do feel very much in the Alexis boat of:
This i...I do feel very much in the Alexis boat of:<br /><br />This is the abilities the class has, you chose them because this is how you intend to meet the ends.<br /><br />If there aren't obvious mechanical strict reasons why those abilities cant be used, there are really no limits outside that.<br /><br />It just pisses me off when a DM tells me a barbarian has to be a wild man from a tribe who wouldn't have hirelings because he's too chaotic.<br /><br />I think I am playing my character DM, you do you, I'll do me, or I'll take me to do me elsewhere.<br /><br />On the bright side, I don't think said DM would punish me for it, and I think he's persuadable, but yeah, alignment and class behavioral restrictions are generally a load of bull for me.<br /><br />Though I do know folks who feel opposite. That you pick the class for their behaviors and then just happen to get those abilities. They tend to be the ones that say their abilities suck every session though...Oddbithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12091924105175846386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-58601368573796771742017-02-27T08:56:42.095-07:002017-02-27T08:56:42.095-07:00Joey,
There's a lot there, but I'll try t...Joey,<br /><br />There's a lot there, but I'll try to get to the meat of it. In my game, the cleric praying or the mage studying to get spells are mechanical processes. They don't require no more behavior than a fighter putting on armor. So if clerics don't pray, correct, clerics does not get spells back.<br /><br />But my system is built in a way that the cleric CANNOT operate at cross-purposes to the deity. Whatever the cleric does, however the cleric acts, the cleric still believes in the god ~ and it is belief, not actions, that counts.<br /><br />Certainly, the cleric can act at crosspurposes to a given Church. But then, everyone can, and with the same results. If anyone started targeting Catholic priests, the Catholic Church would excommunicate the villain and then pursue elimination. <br /><br />Fighter, cleric, makes no difference. But the cleric wouldn't lose their spells, because all the god cares about is belief. And one cleric isn't likely to be able to kill enough believers to put the god in danger. Other clerics will catch up to the rogue cleric first.<br /><br />If the paladin ignores their code, so what? Does the game change? Are there now no challenges or obstacles? Is anyone hurt? Where's my motivation for punishing misbehaviour?<br /><br />Short of anything truly reprehensible, I don't care if the paladin kills a fictional character - any character - in game. As long as it is socially polite between players. I wrote recently that I'd let players run slaves out of Africa if they so chose. That goes for the paladins, the monks and the clerics too.<br /><br />I don't have alignment. I don't consider the clerical spells or the paladin abilities to be "divine favour." I consider all that to be Gygaxian horseshit, piled into the game out of the man's personal moral bias, built up from however the hell his parents treated him or corrupted him when he was a young boy.<br /><br />This is a game. Paladins do what they do because they are paladins.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-77666514923392715322017-02-27T05:56:08.416-07:002017-02-27T05:56:08.416-07:00At the risk of sounding edition biased and saying ...At the risk of sounding edition biased and saying anything good about the current WotC team, this is one thing I enjoy about what 5e has done. Their paladin class is no longer constrained by the traditional paladin code. There are options for how the paladin views the world, and it is the strength of their convictions that give them their supernatural powers.<br /><br />This allows for much greater complexity in the decision making process, while still requiring the player to make meaningful choices. It changes the question from "Is this lawful, good, and within a narrow band of acceptable choices" to "Is this truly an action in line with what I believe, and if it is not, does what I believe change?"<br /><br />I agree that this is not without difficulties still. If a player chooses to play a paladin, chooses a personal code that aligns well with the type of character they want to play, and then completely ignores that code, what should the DM do?<br /><br />It should not be the DM's job to force players to play their character in a certain way, but the source of that character's <i>supernatural</i> abilities is now being called into question.<br /><br />It is not that they lose their knowledge or natural ability, it is that their connection to what gave them abilities that have no correlation in the real world is severed.<br /><br />If a mage chooses not to study, does he still have the ability to cast spells? If a cleric ceases to pray, or acts at cross purposes with her deity, does she continue to be granted divine favour?<br /><br />To bring this back to the monk, the question is from whence does he derive his supernatural ability, or is it even supernatural? If the monk's abilities are merely a function of science and understanding the nature of reality, then unless the nature of reality is such that the eschewing of attachment and pleasure is what brings that power, no code of behavior is necessary. If on the other hand adherence to such a code <i>is</i> what brings the ability to act as a monk, then not following it would necessarily prevent a monk from functioning at her full capacity.<br /><br />Granted, at that point it seems like playing a monk would be as unappealing as playing a lawful stupid paladin.Joey Bennetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14153029890706822967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-81433128759782848412017-02-26T17:32:49.825-07:002017-02-26T17:32:49.825-07:00Interesting you should post this now, as I've ...Interesting you should post this now, as I've recently been on a wuxia (and martial arts in general) kick for a few weeks. I agree with you 100% about not restricting players morally, and the fact remains that even if every evil monk in every wuxia film gets defeated by the heroic monks, that still leaves an untold number of less-prominent, but just as evil, martial artists still roaming the Martial World.<br /><br />Speaking of that, I just re-watched <i>The Magic Blade</i>, and it makes me think of something. The hero does want to defeat Mr. Yu, who rules the Martial World, but how long has Mr. Yu held that position? Ten years? More? It's obvious that Yu is "evil", but that hasn't stopped him from ruling everything until such time as a challenger contests his rank. (This is one reason I like having the hierarchy of opponents built-in to the rules; perhaps Mr. Yu started off as a Novice back in his day...)Fuzzy Skinnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10606454596061907461noreply@blogger.com