tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post9050506355676193310..comments2023-10-14T03:58:59.333-06:00Comments on The Tao of D&D: The Limitations of DiceAlexis Smolenskhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-83923787984184397992012-07-13T16:49:38.971-06:002012-07-13T16:49:38.971-06:00For a long time now, dice have served the referee....For a long time now, dice have served the referee. Whenever a character dies, I hold up my hands and say, "sorry, that's just how the die landed." It's not my fault. I picked out or established the tables, with some knowledge of the likelihood of character death given the party's abilities, but because this was mediated through plastic, it's not my fault. We're still friends. Blame the dice, or buy yourself a new set! And given the subject matter of most RPGs, it's unsurprising that this appeal to superstition works on most players.<br /><br />More seriously: risk, drama and the unexpected arise not from the random element, but from the players making decisions with imperfect information. As much as they don't know what number the die will turn up, they also don't (or shouldn't!) know what's on my dungeon key. <br /><br />Furthermore, the main resolution mechanic is not the die roll, but the discussion. The player proposes, the referee implicitly or explicitly lays out the consequences, and if there's a dispute, a die is rolled. While there are limits to the game due to the mechanics of dice and paper available at the time of its design, these limits keep the flow of the game in the hands of the most flexible devices at the table. (i.e. The clumsiness of the concrete combat resolution system "Billy" uses is a good reason to stick to an abstract system, where the narrative ins and outs of the scrap are up to the play group.)<br /><br />It doesn't follow deductively, but there is an intuition that, once the game starts going over to computers and the non-human resolution can be as complex as one likes, the whole game will follow. Dice are not essential to D&D, but they serve and protect the essential and distinctive element of the game.Derrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02139619999533346131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-91458131078262661752012-07-09T12:45:55.740-06:002012-07-09T12:45:55.740-06:00I for one actually still think the state machine o...I for one actually still think the state machine of rounds could make for the tension of combat with no rolling of dice at all.<br /><br />Each player enters their turns independent of each other before initiative is accounted for. Then combat ensues as the state machine then displays each set of actions accounting for initiative. (or real time even, why not?) Tension builds, will the spell get off in time? Will my swing manage to stun the enemy?<br /><br />The only downside would have to be the program's ability to account for enemies moving out of 'close and melee' range, and the ability to add and alter rules without having a reasonable practical knowledge of programming and scripting.Oddbithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12091924105175846386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-31353942548370184782012-07-09T12:36:29.861-06:002012-07-09T12:36:29.861-06:001) Unless you're only using machined casino d6...1) Unless you're only using machined casino d6es, I suspect a good RNG is providing more honest results that even my precious Gamescience dice, let alone the cheap rock-tumbled rounded-edge variety.<br /><br />2) I'd like to expand on scottz's point 3 a little- rolling the dice yourself does lend a false sense of agency. When you roll a 1 on a save-or-die saving throw, you have the (again, actually false) sense that you made that happen. Now, if there's a mechanism to reseed the random number generator, and you let the players say "Hey! Important roll! Please reseed!" that pretty well alleviates this concern...Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07649420272387984400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-52785596109480102732012-07-09T11:24:49.570-06:002012-07-09T11:24:49.570-06:00If we're going to forever blame comprehension ...If we're going to forever blame comprehension on the author, then we might just as well throw out ALL the literature that has ever been written. If I must write down to the stupidity of an audience, I'd be writing porn.<br /><br />Secondly - solve the problem? Are there no diagnosticians in the world?<br /><br />In fact I meant to post something after this on that issue - but the first part of any treatise is to make the reader understand that there IS a problem. The fetishism of dice is so strong (as demonstrated by the emotional flatulence of last week) that I doubt very much most readers can pull themselves out of their own ass.<br /><br />I stated very clearly that adhering to traditionalism is what people love to do. And then we watched people defend traditionalism on the basis that it is "traditional" ... using psychology to argue that things that are "traditional" are really, really liked.<br /><br />scottz's comment, for instance, which I defined as piled higher and deeper, can be used to describe ANY part of the game, not just the dice. In other words, dice are immaterial to his argument. No one seemed to comprehend that - despite the fact that for anyone who can read literature, it is disturbingly obvious.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-14951748643041941922012-07-09T11:11:49.990-06:002012-07-09T11:11:49.990-06:00First, if no one understood your point, then I'...First, if no one understood your point, then I'd say the problem might be on your end, and not everyone else's.<br /><br />Second, since you've conjured up a 'problem,' Ron Edwards-like in its relationship to actual play, tell us how you plan to 'solve' it.Black Vulmeahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04270071699114783644noreply@blogger.com