tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post656716651465741533..comments2023-10-14T03:58:59.333-06:00Comments on The Tao of D&D: Bad Advice We Don't SeeAlexis Smolenskhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-32427673673353993622017-12-12T00:53:24.086-07:002017-12-12T00:53:24.086-07:00Ah, I have played in this kind of game before.
W...Ah, I have played in this kind of game before. <br /><br />We were contracted to clear out some rubble (why was my wizard getting into construction. Damned if I know). We were attacked, and killed our attackers. They had a Mysterious Train Ticket. We took our pay, and left as a party. <br /><br />One of the party members scalped the mysterious train ticket an hour into a four hour game. That was that. I tried to go shopping after that, but there was no allowance for the desire to purchase something with our pay, so everyone just left early instead. <br />(That game was ... not a good game, either the system or the GM. Not terrible, but had a thousand little issues).<br /><br />You make some good points - I might try to use them the next time I have to run a One-Shot. <br />Archonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17718160700690722856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-84908513152959984602017-12-07T14:38:59.880-07:002017-12-07T14:38:59.880-07:00All that sounds fine to me, François. So long as ...All that sounds fine to me, François. So long as we don't have an enforced mystery, in which the players are expected to care about some clue inserted by the DM.<br /><br />Consider that the bull scene could work fairly well; the bull breaks into the bar (by the door, more realistically), creates the combat moment ... and then immediately after the battle, the bartender and several patrons apologize to the brave and hearty adventurers, thusly:<br /><br />"Great work, and thank you. This whole thing is the fault of this terrible cult, which creates runes on these bulls and drives them mad. We're virtually helpless to do anything about it ..."<br /><br />And there we are. No long, drawn out investigation needed. Shock, combat, result, direct information, player decision, move onto next scene. There's nothing wrong with a shock encounter - it just shouldn't finish with non-information, like such-and-such a rune and no one knows why. Kills momentum.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-53970408924256379922017-12-07T13:26:21.130-07:002017-12-07T13:26:21.130-07:00Would you be okay with having the options presente...Would you be okay with having the options presented (such as giving the outline of the crazy bulls ravaging the town to the players and waiting to see if they are interested in investigating) be done during a session 0 (or via some email conversation, or any other mean to get player feedback beforehand) rather than at the actual table?<br /><br />This way, you (the DM) don't need to invent a whole cult, and start creating stat blocks for the rune-stamping wizard and his 3 acolytes, when in the end that whole story will remain background noise if the players prefer to just go hunt owlbears in the forest for a week.<br /><br />(However, you could still have them return to town and find out all the china shops were destroyed by rune-bearing bulls in the meantime; even better: a group of heroes rose to the occasion and already captured the evil cult while the party was scouring the woods!)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04120794095941460767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-65135339816736226202017-12-06T21:27:02.023-07:002017-12-06T21:27:02.023-07:00I'd like to do more of it, honestly. So long ...I'd like to do more of it, honestly. So long as I can keep myself from ranting; the kind of cogent argument above is better, I know it is better, so I should just do better. Ranting is easy and fun, but it's something I've got to stop doing. This sort of post could be good practice for me.<br />Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-23276043955418610292017-12-06T19:28:22.294-07:002017-12-06T19:28:22.294-07:00Clarified some things that were hazy for me. I'...Clarified some things that were hazy for me. I'd noticed this kind of thing was a drag, but didn't have a clear solution, so just tried to breeze past it quickly. Skipping it entirely is definitely a better option, though.Charles Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00941603544547428940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-48884990007634578462017-12-06T12:31:31.111-07:002017-12-06T12:31:31.111-07:00Funny enough, the obvious solution you offer to th...Funny enough, the obvious solution you offer to the "plot hook" is exactly the kind of hook found in most of the original Old School adventure modules: Giants have been raiding civilized lands, here's their fortress, go kill them (Against the Giants). You found this map to this mysterious island, there's supposed to be a lot of treasure there, do you want to outfit a boat (Isle of Dread). These slavers have been capturing people, can you go liberate them and shut-down their operations (Slave Lord series). <br /><br />This "plot hook" idea (or "story telling device") has been evolving since 1983 or so...ever since adventures started being cinematic/novel walk-thrus (the Dragon Lance series of modules, Ravenloft, etc.). Thing is, over time, dramatic "epic" character development/motivation can occur in a standard D&D campaign (with the rightly inclined players), but someone decided they didn't want to wait for it to occur and wanted to force the issue, making characters the protagonists in a heroic "story" from the get-go. Whether or not you are in favor of such a thing, the REAL unfortunate bit is that they could only think to do so in the clumsiest of ways. What this guy is describing is simply the (current) culmination of this heavy handed concept.<br /><br />I'm sorry you're subjecting yourself to this stuff, but I appreciate you doing it and poking holes in this unsound theory of running games.JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-89364388334614529692017-12-05T11:04:09.553-07:002017-12-05T11:04:09.553-07:00Alexis,
I want to say thank you very much for doi...Alexis,<br /><br />I want to say thank you very much for doing this particular post's worth of deconstruction (and for its follow-up, too.) I can see in it some of the failures that I experienced earlier this year while running my game. To be specific, instead of taking opportunities to hand my players the information they were clearly looking for, and put them in positions to act (or not) on that info, instead I drip-fed it to them at a rate which was too slow to maintain their interest. That was my fault.<br /><br />I would not say that I forced the players into a passive role, so I avoided the embarassingly stupid and contrived kinds of scenarios written by Mercer at the beginning of this post. But I gave them a space of options that was <i>too</i> wide-open, with not enough feedback or context to know when they ought to make decisions, and not enough mounting pressure to force them to act. So, it is not enough, at first, to just to say to the players "do whatever you want!": the specific scenario (e.g. the bakers' guild example you gave) is what is needed to get things going at the beginning of the campaign. If they accept it, then fallout from their decisions becomes the seed for the next round of offers from the DM, and away you go! If they reject it, try a different tack and quickly -- hell, ASK THEM what they want and propose things they might do to get it until they decide one of those sounds good.Maxwell Joslynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02309867478186083339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-36031170710009912042017-12-04T13:33:28.637-07:002017-12-04T13:33:28.637-07:00This is a really well-constructed and persuasive p...This is a really well-constructed and persuasive post (I'm already on board but it struck me as a particularly strong argument against the errand-running Mercer discusses).<br /><br />On the subject of Mercer's video, I found it puzzling how Tip #5 (or thereabouts) talked about designing a set of intermediate NPCs to fill in the middle of the story and provide more information. This narrative style definitely appears to be a source of annoyance more than excitement for most players I've run in the past, mainly because knowing about the world is often seen as the DM's job: the players are at the mercy of the DM to know where they should go, who they should talk to, why they should do it, and so on. I like how this post, and some others you've written in the past on providing players with opportunities -- rather than coercing them -- counter that argument by presenting hooks for free.<br /><br />As well, I would think a better method from Tip #2 (determining the style) would be to incorporate your ideas on player motivations, rather than genres. Choosing pirates over ninjas doesn't make as much of a difference to players as choosing magical power over social status.<br /><br />I would be interested in more deconstruction of the stages between the players taking the hook and the players finishing the adventure. Points like those you've made at the end of this post on skipping the boring point to the fact that there are certain storytelling tropes that many players will want to skip over (searching for information being a prime example, since the DM just gets to watch the players bumble about until they ask <i>just the right question</i>). I'm sure I can list a bunch myself if I gave it some more thought, but I'd expect you've picked out a few bad ones in particular over the years.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03496502173819113887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-68377483852643060872017-12-04T05:34:47.691-07:002017-12-04T05:34:47.691-07:00Following from your previous post regarding module...Following from your previous post regarding modules, mainstream running advice seems to equally subscribe to the 'Xtreme' marketing formula of the nineties. <br /><br />I like ham-acting more than some as you well know but being strung along a succession of familial deaths is off my motivational grid entirely (seduction being another stumbling block).<br /><br />You once validated only greed/accumulation of power as motivator, with which I stand in full agreement: characters aren't ever authentically motivated, <i>players</i> are. And greed is the truest way to do it.<br /><br /><br /><br />Drainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09724863160300686402noreply@blogger.com