tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post4318300823286263549..comments2023-10-14T03:58:59.333-06:00Comments on The Tao of D&D: Conscience To Play WithAlexis Smolenskhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-13617492858039008672012-12-30T09:33:46.731-07:002012-12-30T09:33:46.731-07:00Thanks! This really got me thinking about how I pr...Thanks! This really got me thinking about how I prefer to DM a game and might be worth thinking about it some more. I appreciate that and the fine argument.Jens D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18394303166081684904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-44292648220496224192012-12-30T00:24:14.282-07:002012-12-30T00:24:14.282-07:00I am never fine with agreeing to disagree.
Howeve...I am never fine with agreeing to disagree.<br /><br />However, you make your point fairly and I rescind my previous statement.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-61839553527521694562012-12-29T17:19:57.863-07:002012-12-29T17:19:57.863-07:00True that. I like "miasma of ethical conceit&...True that. I like "miasma of ethical conceit", although it's beyond the point.<br /><br />I tend to believe the story is "ours" and the obligation, if that word applies (we talk about a game after all), for a DM is to make the game click. Ideally, again, my opinion, the DM is neutral, not giving any ethical or otherwise intended inclination whatsoever. Every event, random or not, is an opportunity. It will be used. The difficulty is to use it without an agenda and get a story out of it nonetheless (maybe like an interpretation linked to a common denominator?).<br /><br />To claim objectivity in order to project some kind of superiority might work, but in the end that's just ONE idea how the world works and one agenda to force upon players.<br /><br />So if anything, there should be a taoist element to any approach of DMing.<br /><br />I'm also fine with agreeing to disagree...Jens D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18394303166081684904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-77639508465332374892012-12-29T15:18:41.643-07:002012-12-29T15:18:41.643-07:00Your story, or theirs? And if theirs, where is yo...Your story, or theirs? And if theirs, where is your obligation?<br /><br />Those words sound good, but to me they conceal a miasma of ethical conceit. We really do look at this very differently.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-28893057732424359452012-12-29T14:55:02.058-07:002012-12-29T14:55:02.058-07:00I guess we are all limited in the scope of our gam...I guess we are all limited in the scope of our games somehow. Though I would argue that even in pulp fiction beauty and truth can be found and have a place. Maybe it is just a matter of capability, that I don't know. But the argument is on 2 levels: one is about characters interacting with a world, the second about players feeling what's happening. Two completely different animals. You address the second and I think you are right with your assessment. The terror comes from not knowing and every trick you can muster to achieve this with players is legit. Character interaction, on the other hand, is about plausibility, to name the least, and the amount of involvement (or interest) you can inspire in your players (even with random events). This is were stories get important, in my opinion. It's not about why something is happening, but about what story is told after it happened. And just like in real life, it's what you make of it. As a DM you have the opportunity to connect those levels (or maybe even the obligation). Like with the shooting, we are recipient of a story and the level of engagement is totally dependent on distance and agenda.Jens D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18394303166081684904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-67417288941526288012012-12-29T12:25:07.548-07:002012-12-29T12:25:07.548-07:00I get your point, JD. But don't you see, this ...I get your point, JD. But don't you see, this example besides ... if this is your argument for every event that happens in your world, then you ARE limited in the scope of your game to cheap pulp fiction plots.<br /><br />If you know there's a "point," then the players know it too. And there goes the TERROR that comes from not knowing. People ask, how do you build terror into a D&D game. How do you get the blood racing, the player sweating?<br /><br />By not insisting that "effect" is a guarantee. There is nothing so undermining to confidence than the knowledge that death may not only come without warning ... it may come without purpose, too.<br /><br />You say that's unfair. I say the game is about life, not pulp fiction. And life is not always fair. Oddbit's point is perfectly valid. 2 bandits. 7th level. With the sort of stats the party would have. Picking a perfectly fair opportunity to use their bows.<br /><br />It is not in the least unlikely.<br /><br />But that's the philosophical difference between you and I ... the same difference that has existed between writers for two hundred years. Do you convey a story? Or do you convey life?Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-78341972659676456832012-12-29T12:03:53.213-07:002012-12-29T12:03:53.213-07:00As far as logic goes, the example with the gnomes ...As far as logic goes, the example with the gnomes doesn't allow for more than inductive reasoning. The sense of probability a DM is able to achieve in a game gives him room to bring a random encounter like that, even without the old man warning them, but not without the main premise that information about the characters surroundings might be gathered to some effect.<br /><br />And I certainly wouldn't do it to teach them a lesson and say "Well, shit happens, look at that shooting the other day...". But that's just me being nice.Jens D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18394303166081684904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-50341454199118400032012-12-29T11:36:50.533-07:002012-12-29T11:36:50.533-07:00The problem is, how often do people have hints the...The problem is, how often do people have hints they're going to get mugged?<br /><br />In the DnD world, the 'bad part of town' aside from the ones inside an actual town, is everywhere outside town.<br /><br />Oh and easily two gnomes like that could be simple bandits looting the leftovers.Oddbithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12091924105175846386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-74874862792635529122012-12-29T10:43:40.493-07:002012-12-29T10:43:40.493-07:00I don't hear logic here. I hear a host of assu...I don't hear logic here. I hear a host of assumptions, beginning with the gnomes camping out - that they couldn't just be wandering along, like the party. I hear two people who want the world to fit into a neat little box.<br /><br /><i>"... characters happening across a bridge guarded by two deadly gnomes with no connection to anything else, just doesn't happen.</i><br /><br />In what <a href="http://www.arktimes.com/binary/a334/1355575655-hartford.jpg" rel="nofollow">universe</a>?<br />Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-37224928826185792542012-12-29T05:59:46.615-07:002012-12-29T05:59:46.615-07:00I don't quite follow why you'd set up an e...I don't quite follow why you'd set up an encounter like this to begin with. It might just be how I roll as a DM, but if there was a bridge guarded by two sharpshooter gnomes, there might be rumors about it. Or maybe there are some arrows stuck in the bridge. And why are the gnomes guarding the bridge? Is there treasure on the other side? If so, the players should probably figure out that there's going to be someone guarding the treasure. <br /><br />What I'm trying to get across is that I think there are ways of setting up the campaign such that your premise, characters happening across a bridge guarded by two deadly gnomes with no connection to anything else, just doesn't happen.Asarishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10479118016866405388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-31291540087671040872012-12-29T04:18:42.517-07:002012-12-29T04:18:42.517-07:00I think fairness is the one thing a DM should be c...I think fairness is the one thing a DM should be capable of. And it doesn't need that old man to warn the players. In your example with the gnomes it's all about probability. Those gnomes will influence travel on that road and this is information that could be gathered (tracks, stories in the last inn on the road because someone got away, etc.). Futhermore, this bridge - being crucial for the ambush - might show signs of combat. How likely is it that those gnomes encountered and attacked a magic-user (or a group with a m-u) before? What typical signs might that have left behind? Are they covered? How? Depending on the number of battles on and around that bridge, even an excellent cover-up might leave some hints. Anyway, all I'm trying to say is that there might be more than enough evidence for those gnomes being around without the need for a DM to go out of his way to warn the players. Nothing comes out of nowhere or without leaving a footprint in the world. If a DM gives the hints and the players can't or won't connect the dots, a kill might be justified. But even then there might be one or more ways to get out of a situation like this. Plus: if the players get the feeling they are treated fair and had more than one chance to realize what's happening around them, they won't hold it against the DM if they die (it is crucial for players to know that it is possible to "beat the game"...).Jens D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18394303166081684904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-72743097876574614322012-12-29T01:46:18.123-07:002012-12-29T01:46:18.123-07:00Or you could just have the players do whatever is ...Or you could just have the players do whatever is natural to the characters until something out of the ordinary happens... like the first shot. Or if someone DOES spot a gnome behind a tree...<br /><br />But then we get into the problem of a DM assuming...Oddbithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12091924105175846386noreply@blogger.com