tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post323048136885167445..comments2023-10-14T03:58:59.333-06:00Comments on The Tao of D&D: Settings And Abuses Of SettingsAlexis Smolenskhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-91242852069316946692009-11-07T10:35:17.447-07:002009-11-07T10:35:17.447-07:00To me referee mean the person adjudicating the int...To me referee mean the person adjudicating the interaction between the players and the setting. I can see you point about refereeing between players but remember the origin of the term in the context of RPGs comes from Welsey's Brausteins where the player were not only competing with each other but with the environment.<br /><br />Arneson's game introduced the players cooperating with each other (as well other RPG concept). But he was still refereeing the action of the players within the environment of Blackmoor.Robert Conleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03863009007381185340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-39274291338359093532009-11-06T17:22:18.105-07:002009-11-06T17:22:18.105-07:00You do understand.You do understand.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-36860918836491262952009-11-06T15:56:51.388-07:002009-11-06T15:56:51.388-07:00@Alexis: Thanks for the response. I'd rather c...@Alexis: Thanks for the response. I'd rather clearly understand each other and respectively disagree than talk past each other. I wouldn't create a D&D type of world without the intent of playing in it.<br /><br />On the flip side, since the age of five, I have create a giant metropolis that only I have seen. Details include the color of the fire hydrants, the number of lanes on the highways, population densities, heights of downtown buildings, sports teams, etc. Somethings have been updated, reflecting my "more mature" knowledge of the world and my research into cities. Other things remain as they were when I was five--for example, "Fluffy Lake Road" (a memorial to a family pet now long dead). All this built for no other intent than the love of building it and perhaps the lack of an intervention by professionals when I was a child. This giant city, along with a giant pile of history books and a few guitars, is what my children will inherit.Rustyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01786312855250456688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-4698305584579040502009-11-06T15:29:31.131-07:002009-11-06T15:29:31.131-07:00Ah, Axe, I understand.
In that case, I do not hav...Ah, Axe, I understand.<br /><br />In that case, I do not have a mere quibble, I have an emphatic disagreement.<br /><br />If I had no players, if every person on this earth besides me ceased to play, I would still work on my world, and probably with the same vigor.<br /><br />I love it, you see.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-34252129347184497002009-11-06T15:11:34.808-07:002009-11-06T15:11:34.808-07:00I won't call them stupid - at the time I was p...I won't call them stupid - at the time I was pissed, but later I saw the logic of what they meant. <br /><br />Really, part of it is about honesty and communication. Building a world that goes unappreciated can be discouraging, but if the right communication happens, you're right - suddenly the players can "get" what's going on below the surface and appreciate it a lot more. <br /><br />And on the flip side, if the GM "gets" that the players are really just in it for the fun, they can dial it back a little and focus their "work", such as it is, on building an atmosphere conducive to that fun.<br /><br />So yeah, it's not a matter of blaming stupid players (although sometimes they can be a little dense...), as it is more a mis-communication of goals and motivations for playing. BUT, it can often been taken for the former, which is when you start to get frustrations and bad blood.Jack Badelairehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10932441028544500024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-15268311243747761992009-11-06T15:10:02.404-07:002009-11-06T15:10:02.404-07:00Thank you for taking the time to answer. My point ...Thank you for taking the time to answer. My point was that, while I do create my campaign setting without consideration to players as if it were an entity unto itself, the reality is that it is a setting that is meant to be played in. I don't see this as either/or. I see this as both/and. <br /><br />After a long layoff from gaming, I am creating a new campaign setting and it is a huge amount of work. I think the work is necessary and I find the satisfaction in the task. It is nice when players say "Wow, that was great" but I think it is not realistic to expect most players to fully appreciate the 90% that they are not seeing at any given moment in the gaming session. <br /><br />When I say "about the players" I think of a sports stadium, built for a single purpose--an athletic event. Without the event, it is a meaningless structure. In that sense, it is "about the players." So the structure is created with a purpose and without it, the game cannot be played. But despite having the unique purpose, the actual structure--the field, the stands, the locker room, the lights--is totally indifferent to the actual activity. It doesn't care who wins or loses, what the score is, or the number of fans in attendance. There is both purpose and indifference at the same time.Rustyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01786312855250456688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-89391531575825681252009-11-06T14:51:56.569-07:002009-11-06T14:51:56.569-07:00Badelaire... I've been precisely in your shoes...Badelaire... I've been precisely in your shoes before and my first insitnct was also to "blame these stupid players". Upon deeper reflection, though, I realized that the parts they didn't care about were the parts they shouldn't care about... or put another way, they didn't yet have a reason to care. <br /><br />For instance, I may have put all of the elbow grease into building and teairng down thousands of years of ancient civilization to justify the pacement of so many ruins and so much loot... but my players just wanted the ruins and the loot and a compelling arc to get them there. Having gone through the motions, though, when I suddenly needed a detail to give an item or a person some significance... or when they went down a path of inquiry I dodn't anticpate I was able to react. When it came up, and the players noticed or appreciated the internal logic they admired the the shiny tip of the iceberg having no idea the work that lay beneath it... all of the paths and details yet to be explored (and perhaps never).<br /><br />Now I liken my campaign world to the sets created for the filming of Bladerunner or the LOTR trilogy... whole 3D locations that the camerea (or the players actions) may only get to see a small portion of.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-62944600922550399442009-11-06T14:17:54.551-07:002009-11-06T14:17:54.551-07:00I'll definitely agree with you that the best c...I'll definitely agree with you that the best campaign settings have a good measure of elbow grease mixed into them.<br /><br />However, a lot of GMs, and more specifically groups of players, suffer from a lack of appreciation of the GM's labors.<br /><br />I know I went through this during college - putting tremendous effort into documenting the setting and creating all sorts of source material...that was pointedly ignored by players who told me "I don't have time to read any of that - just tell us what we need to know".<br /><br />A shame, really. I'd love to have a group of really hardcore, dedicated <i>gamers</i>, rather than people who just enjoy playing the occasional RPG for the fun of it. People who actually will put effort into it commensurate to the effort the GM is willing to put into the game.Jack Badelairehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10932441028544500024noreply@blogger.com