tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post2978284269479226324..comments2023-10-14T03:58:59.333-06:00Comments on The Tao of D&D: Grassroots MovementAlexis Smolenskhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-63073089208609526192014-11-15T23:55:01.458-07:002014-11-15T23:55:01.458-07:00OK.
Alexis, with regard to "crosstraining:&q...OK.<br /><br />Alexis, with regard to "crosstraining:" I'd forgotten your character generator had a setting that sometimes allowed cross-training of sage skills. At time of writing I was suggesting a method of active sage skill selection, but the rare generator output is a better way. Your point.<br /><br />As far as "close to the chest," I apologize for that. I do remember you using that phrase to me regarding sage skills at an earlier date, about the Fighter and others, but I could obviously have thought harder about it; furthermore, some Google searches restricted to your site don't turn up the phrase in that context. So perhaps I was mistaken.<br /><br />I do understand the leadership ability of religious figures, thank you: but I didn't give the class-neutral descriptions enough thought. Understood.<br /><br />Finally, Standard Bearer. I understand your perspective on that better now. I think adding a line or two of your response to me to the wiki entry for Standard Bearer would be a good decision. It could give players an idea of how characters with the ability might act. Obviously it's not some kind of straitjacket, but players searching for inspiration when playing might look to such things. What do you think?Maxwell Joslynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02309867478186083339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-9983473189601259312014-11-07T12:29:53.289-07:002014-11-07T12:29:53.289-07:00Alexis: have read your responses. No time to reply...Alexis: have read your responses. No time to reply to them at the moment but I appreciate you taking the time to explain your thoughts.Maxwell Joslynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02309867478186083339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-35722073461598154632014-11-07T11:35:25.171-07:002014-11-07T11:35:25.171-07:00You may feel assured that the Bard will indeed app...You may feel assured that the Bard will indeed approach all this from a very different point of view.<br />Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-86878949418498902282014-11-07T11:31:20.077-07:002014-11-07T11:31:20.077-07:00From experience with Alexis in the past, I have a ...From experience with Alexis in the past, I have a feeling the bard will have it's own relevant skill.<br /><br />At some point he mentioned his stance on the expertise of bards vs rogues.<br /><br />Rogues are experts on understanding money, where it comes from and where it goes.<br /><br />Bards are experts on people...<br />I have a feeling they will have a method to gather a rapt audience.<br /><br />That said, throwing a party and turning a toast into a tirade on what SHOULD be done could easily be gathering a 'rapt audience' as well... Oddbithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12091924105175846386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-60396335231800341492014-11-06T07:28:11.075-07:002014-11-06T07:28:11.075-07:00About the Bard,
The Bard may have ways to get the...About the Bard,<br /><br />The Bard may have ways to get the rapt attention of an already assembled crowd. <br /><br />The Cleric can walk into town and start spreading the word of change, so that after a period of time a large group of people have assembled for him to address. The bard on the other hand might be able to compel the attention of an entire room of pub patrons, or of a number of folks who are out and about in a market, at a town square, or in a theatre. The key difference is that the Bard's method only works so long as the people are already mostly assembled for some other reason. <br /><br />If he is able to change the focus of at least 20 people from their normal tasks to his art that would give a him the rapt attention of a crowd to then enact a policy. <br /><br />I imagine a Bard playing a song or doing some other street performance to get attention, and then segueing into a political point. This would also mean that the Bard may be forgoing any monetary gain from his performance.<br /><br />This may not fit with your experience with musicians, which is far more experience than I have. Just tossing an idea at you.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17939309042792833333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-80015794318841786492014-11-05T18:02:05.010-07:002014-11-05T18:02:05.010-07:00That post and your explanations have for the first...That post and your explanations have for the first time tempted me just to steal your system wholesale rather than continue to try and improve what I have now, fortunately the sage system seems a long way from completion and the drive to self improvement is a thing.<br /><br />Unrelatedly the description of the herald standard bearer ability gave me another idea for the heraldry sage class. You know the story about Constantine getting his men to paint the symbol of christainity on their shields? I imagine an expert or sage heraldry expert (and high level priest) could give a speech or go person to person, getting people to paint a symbol on their shield or stitch a symbol on their clothing (the cross from the first crusade) to give a certain ammount of people the standard bearer bonus for a certain amount of time, or for a certain task.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04278455754046118073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-34408451323368017872014-11-05T09:08:57.071-07:002014-11-05T09:08:57.071-07:00One of the storied motivations for Men and Magic w...One of the storied motivations for Men and Magic was an impulse to simulate interactions more significant than "I hit it with my axe.". You've succeeded in knocking that for six. Or do you Canucks instead knock it out of the park? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-33251691031242602122014-11-05T07:59:08.829-07:002014-11-05T07:59:08.829-07:00Very well, the standard bearer ability.
Yes, anyo...Very well, the standard bearer ability.<br /><br />Yes, anyone could wave a standard and bear it forward. But who could explain the meaning of that standard, the IMPORT, better than someone who knows everything about it? Think of the time spent in the camp prior to battle, as the character relates every detail about the image, telling stories about how it came about and how it changed the lives of people in the kingdom! Consider the power of the speaker, choosing words that carve a worshipful attitude towards the standard, not just as a flag but as a HOLY icon of power and meaning! When the herald carries it, the reminder of all those things is fixed in the combatants mind, so that they are driven to gain that +1 to hit and morale. Yes, anyone can carry the symbol, but the herald is not just 'anyone.' The herald has gained a respect becoming the herald's knowledge and personality. To pursue heraldry as an ability is to promote this perception.<br /><br />I hope all this helps explain my perception somewhat. I've only taken the time to try and change your mind about these things in order to raise your thinking past some of the ordinary assumptions people tend to make.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-89095982147722402622014-11-05T07:53:55.775-07:002014-11-05T07:53:55.775-07:00Let me make another point about the speeches. You...Let me make another point about the speeches. You'll note that I've written them on the wiki so that, given the right situation, ANYONE can give a speech and make the necessary rolls. While the grassroots movement produces the crowd, there are other in-game things that might offer a rapt audience to a player character - whereupon the various speeches - rally, rabble-rouse, agitate or civil disobedience can be called for by the player. The only thing the sage ability contributes is that it makes a crowd at will.<br /><br />Think about it - a CLERIC goes around talking to everyone in the community, getting them stirred up. Why? Because its a cleric, and religion has great importance in everyone's life. Could a fighter put this sort of pressure on a community? A mage? A thief or a bard? No! Communities listen to community LEADERS, and this does not include ordinary soldiers, artists, scientists and businessmen. Not unless they FIRST make a name for themselves as something other than their class.<br /><br />Only a cleric is automatically awarded respect just for being a cleric. If this isn't evident to you, then there is a great deal about the way religion works (and its influence on others) that you don't know. I suggest asking your local minister to let you go on rounds with him to the hospital or elsewhere, to see how people react to him AS A PERSON, simply because he wears a collar.<br /><br />(continued . . .)Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-78471430614877204412014-11-05T07:48:08.750-07:002014-11-05T07:48:08.750-07:00As regards sage skills in general and my playing i...As regards sage skills in general and my playing it "close to the chest." I'm not, actually. I've talked about virtually everything I have planned, I've posted the work I've done on the Work Blog, on this blog and on the Wiki. I rush to remind you that 24 hours ago I hadn't the slightest inkling of the grassroots movement skill. I invented it, wrote it, then shared it. How much more open do you require me to be?<br /><br />I haven't talked about fighters and thieves because I haven't written ANYTHING on those subjects. I can tell you that the fighter will likely include studies on logistics, tactics, equestrianism, making of armor and weapons and weapon proficiency. Thieves will be primarily concerned with money; mages with practical science and engineering; illusionists with theoretical science (or possibly reversed) and assassins with death. The bard will be all about the art. A monk will probably reflect some clerical studies, some druidic.<br /><br />Beyond this and what I've posted, I'm sorry, I just don't know. I'm making this up as fast as I can. I will add that EVERYTHING will likely get folded into the sage system - from the proficiencies that fighters get now, to thieving skills, the making of poisons, ranger tracking, etc. How I can't say. This is taking huge amounts of time and effort, while taking me places I never considered going. Right now I see it as a monumental task without a foreseeable end.<br /><br />(continued . . .)Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-58813397851256214002014-11-05T07:40:33.943-07:002014-11-05T07:40:33.943-07:00As regards cross-training.
I've talked about ...As regards cross-training.<br /><br />I've talked about this before. There are opportunities for cross-training built into the character generator, though it is rare and the amount of cross-training is minimal. On the other hand, a character can always choose to be multi-classed.<br /><br />Just because a fighter COULD find value in heraldry doesn't make it logical for every fighter to have that opportunity. A player in the NFL might have a degree as a medical doctor, but it isn't likely - most players don't have the brains, the time, the resources or the mindset to hammer away at school as well as football, and HEY: a guy like that sounds like a multi-classed to me.<br /><br />The 'COULD' argument, to me, just sounds like more chafing at that class structure - which is just a lot of boo-hooing because a character doesn't want to be a cleric just so they can use all the cool cleric skilz. I do hope you change your mind about kowtowing to this sort of thinking - its a slippery slope that leads straight to point buying. I said enough about that last week.<br /><br />(continued . . .)Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-53882733344379831892014-11-05T07:35:23.405-07:002014-11-05T07:35:23.405-07:00Plenty of grist for the mill, Maxwell.
First off,...Plenty of grist for the mill, Maxwell.<br /><br />First off, I don't really see 'grassroots movement' as a Bard thing at all. I suppose I have a very definite, different idea about the classes than you do. Throughout history, clerics have been very definitely interested in politics, as public behaviour so often reflects the demands that a religion requires. Right from the start of civilization, clerics and governors have operated hand in hand, beguiling the population in order to ensure absolute rulership.<br /><br />Bards are interested primarily in art. While yes, some artists DO get involved in politics, the vast majority of them do not in any way. While you and I can name some performers in the present who are politically involved - Tim Robbins, Barbra Streisand, Jane Fonda, Ronald Reagan, Hugh Grant, Glenda Jackson - we could just as easily name 30,000 without any interest in politics at all. I'll point out, too, in the case of Reagan, he early on moved away from acting in order to run the Actor's Guild for awhile, before deciding that wasn't enough personal power, leading him to the governorship of California and ultimately to the White House. In other words, he QUIT being a bard so he could be a boss instead.<br /><br />The grassroots idea reflects the way the Tea Party used history to create an agenda of not paying taxes, as the signers of the Declaration of Independence had not imposed income tax. I can't think of any artists associated with the Tea Party except for Ted Nugent, who is NOT representative of my idea of a bard.<br /><br />Given the number of screaming christians in the Tea Party, I think cleric suits the ability far more rationally.<br /><br />(to be continued . . .)Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-20137792595065718872014-11-05T00:39:32.557-07:002014-11-05T00:39:32.557-07:00A very interesting set of rules!
One can finally ...A very interesting set of rules!<br /><br />One can finally PLAN and start a crusade.Rob Munrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10092570070263437683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-36372562198391032072014-11-04T23:16:05.987-07:002014-11-04T23:16:05.987-07:00I love it! It makes me wonder what other "lar...I love it! It makes me wonder what other "large-scale" or "population-affecting" actions might provide for fun gameplay when rules are made for them. I can't remember if you use a Bard or not, but these would seem perfect as a Bard sage skill.<br /><br />Is there any chance that certain sage skills will be shared between classes, in cases such as this? It does seem that there could be some overlap. Ranger/Druid comes to mind immediately.<br /><br />I also have a question about the Standard Bearer amateur ability for the Heraldry sage skill. What is the justification for that being a sage ability? I understand that knowledge is needed to know the right standard to bear, but why is the actual ability to grant a benefit restricted to those with Standard Bearer?<br /><br />Speaking of Heraldry and, dare I say, "cross-class" sage skills: it seems that Heraldry might make sense for the Fighter, illiteracy or no. I know you're keeping the sage skills close to your chest, but could you tell me at least whether the Fighter sage skills will go on this "leader of men" direction?<br /><br />Finally: could you elaborate for me the conceptual differences between what are traditionally* called "thief skills" and the sage skills? I understand the difference with sage skills that primarily provide knowledge of techniques, creatures, magical formulae, etc. However, with abilities like Grassroots Movement, the line between "something you know" and "abilities you have" seems thinner. Is the Thief's improved ability to sneak not a kind of sage skill: based on class, with power (partially) dependent on level, and enhancing the things one can do well?<br /><br />*I say 'traditionally' because I believe you employ a different, more logical system where everyone can climb, steal, sneak, etc, but thieves and assassins do it best; as opposed to the silly thief percentile rolls in Gygax.Maxwell Joslynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02309867478186083339noreply@blogger.com