tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post1861164897612085284..comments2023-10-14T03:58:59.333-06:00Comments on The Tao of D&D: Dead ThinkingAlexis Smolenskhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-71366462177551309432018-11-28T17:09:59.456-07:002018-11-28T17:09:59.456-07:00Well, first, let's not forget I wrote this com...Well, first, let's not forget I wrote this comment ten years ago, and that we as people evolve. Were I writing this post today, I would not be so provocative.<br /><br />Dramas and adventures written about loved ones, patriotism, idealism and a thirst for knowledge are ALWAYS about a) power; and b) wealth. The boy and the girl trouble themselves before yielding to one another over trust, which is to say, "If I trust this person, will they use their power to fuck me over?" The Patriot is always fighting the vested interest based upon power and wealth. The Idealist fights the same battle. A thirst for knowledge is always opposed by those who use their power to thwart research, revelation and so on.<br /><br />It isn't so much the narrowness of my motivations, but the narrowness of your definition of power.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-83446660705207969572018-11-28T16:15:41.003-07:002018-11-28T16:15:41.003-07:00"I have always hated campaigns where characte..."I have always hated campaigns where character "personalities, desires and motivations" don't start with A) power; B) wealth; and C) more power.<br /><br />These are the only human motivations which are interesting (thus being the human motivations which are used to write dramas and adventures)."<br /><br />I find this to be an extremely… narrow view of human motivations. Other possible motivations are the well-being of loved ones (easily employed by having characters with, you know, a kind of social origin), patriotism (I mean, urgh, but, you know…), idealism (which is so extremely common that I can't even fathom how you missed this), thirst for knowledge, and so on.<br /><br />I'm also not sure which dramas and adventures you're reading that these are the only motivations you happen upon.Antsanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16993116520760182498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-35307094570299399552008-06-19T13:32:00.000-06:002008-06-19T13:32:00.000-06:00In Shadowrun, one of your starting options is (per...In Shadowrun, one of your starting options is (perhaps was - I haven't played since 2nd ed was released) to account for your starting cash. One option is 1,000,000 newyen which can be spent on cyberware. The collection of cyberware in the game is not a short list, it is contained in a number of books, updates, periodicals, online sources and updates released by the company that marketed Shadowrun. It was one of the single, largest selling features of the game and it was built right in at the character creation level. Everyone at the table would have to buy a copy or wait to develop their character until after the other players were done with the Shadowtech book, for example.<BR/><BR/>And yet everyone would sit down with characters that had skill wires, wired reflexes, body armor, personal combat computers, mono-filament whips, diamond kote swords, yadda yadda, etc etc. They were all clones of the same basic character.<BR/><BR/>On the other side you had the same thing for magic users, riggers, deckers, etc... endless source material that was "required" to create a new character.<BR/><BR/>Every time a new source book came out everyone would want to build a new character that had all this new wetware and hardware... That experience alone killed entire campaigns. Campaigns would last as long as the publishing cycle held back from releasing new material. Which is to say the game was restarted every 4-6 months.<BR/><BR/>Skills in 3rd Ed. D&D are nothing compared to cyberware in Shadowrun.<BR/><BR/>-MikeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-21637369860398789732008-06-08T16:48:00.000-06:002008-06-08T16:48:00.000-06:00I agree that the game doesn't need alignments. I w...I agree that the game doesn't need alignments. I wanted to give a humorous example of just how pointless they really are as a way of expressing my agreement with your position.<BR/><BR/>As for the silliness factor or "fun" quotient to the game in which that example was drawn, well, ok. <BR/><BR/>I'm sorry you find the style in question distasteful, but I think it supports your original observation further if two disparate groups still come to the same conclusion - in this case, alignment is useless. While you might surgically remove the benign tumor that is alignment, we lampooned it mercilessly. Either way, it was recognized as shit by both parties and removed.<BR/><BR/>-MikeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-65101238712124468072008-06-07T22:00:00.000-06:002008-06-07T22:00:00.000-06:00I have to say this. I cringed at your last respon...I have to say this. I cringed at your last response, Mike; I find just about everything about it very distasteful. That is, in being not serious. The LG thing, the inventing your own alignments...better if I don't get specific.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps you didn't understand my point. I'm not looking for an "alternative" to alignments and character codes. They're junk. The game doesn't need them.<BR/><BR/>And I haven't had a chance yet to make one other thing clear: I have always hated campaigns where character "personalities, desires and motivations" don't start with A) power; B) wealth; and C) more power.<BR/><BR/>These are the only human motivations which are interesting (thus being the human motivations which are used to write dramas and adventures).<BR/><BR/>Other human motivations, such as "fun", are used to make comedies. And I don't see this game as a comedy. I don't play with people who think it is. (Remember about the walrus thing?)<BR/><BR/>Of course, there is love and sex...but I've never found a satisfactory way to mix these with D&D. Nor any expressed desire from anybody to do more research into it.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-51070913142739693982008-06-07T08:54:00.000-06:002008-06-07T08:54:00.000-06:00-Mike(I keep forgetting to sign off on my comments...-Mike<BR/>(I keep forgetting to sign off on my comments)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-57653785109466189022008-06-07T08:53:00.000-06:002008-06-07T08:53:00.000-06:00In a recent game, the DM (Seamus) let us create / ...In a recent game, the DM (Seamus) let us create / invent our own alignments and modified NPC reactions accordingly. This was inspired by some source I do not recall (I'll have to ask him). One of the provided examples was LG = Liberal Granola. I took it and ran with it. The other party member created his own, which was an extremely rude send up of NG - just like his character. Leaving the alignment open like that was excellent. It really allowed us the opportunity to nail down the characters personalities, desires and motivations. We created characters you wouldn't otherwise see in a DnD game.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-74324606677677163122008-06-06T09:14:00.000-06:002008-06-06T09:14:00.000-06:00I admit, I haven't played Shadowrun, it coming out...I admit, I haven't played Shadowrun, it coming out following the time I turned my back on the "community." But your description of the characters choosing skills to compliment each other suggests that they consciously chose to create "classes" of their own.<BR/><BR/>I appreciate your comments, they are good ones, and reflect our thinking back in the day.<BR/><BR/>Three of the players in my world right now have NEVER played with alignment and have no concept of it. This is to their benefit.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-86286455137048558292008-06-06T08:14:00.000-06:002008-06-06T08:14:00.000-06:00I played a LG Paladin for 2 1/2 years real time. M...I played a LG Paladin for 2 1/2 years real time. My fellow player was adventuring with a LG Swashbuckler. The two had the same alignment, but drastically different characters. We spent a great deal of time, in character, arguing over the finer points of virtue. We also spent a great deal of time out of character debating the value of an alignment system at all.<BR/><BR/>We were both playing the same alignment, a very restrictive alignment, with very different outcomes. What purpose did an alignment system even have if two such polar opposites could exist in the same strata? It was blatantly apparent that the character of the characters was driven by the player, not the alignment.<BR/><BR/>The example of the Paladin is a good one. In 1990 or 91, Dragon Magazine printed rather detailed descriptions for Paladins of all alignments. Which kind of begs the question of why an alignment system even exists at all?<BR/><BR/>When the behavior of the characters is driven more by their class, the player, setting and situation it has no bearing what so ever.<BR/><BR/>It is handy as a reminder for NPC's though.<BR/><BR/>Skill points in D&D or any system isn't exactly useless. Have you ever tried to make a Shadowrun character? I too have seen people spend weeks working on spending all those points and adjusting options just to sit down at the table to discover they're playing the same basic character as everyone else. I've also seen a group of players work together to create a very specific party. One in which the characters compliment one another and makes them much more prepared to deal with the unknowns of an open-play style campaign.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com