tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post1623035159193597132..comments2023-10-14T03:58:59.333-06:00Comments on The Tao of D&D: The Story-TalectomyAlexis Smolenskhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-61924820595427756662013-03-26T16:55:59.357-06:002013-03-26T16:55:59.357-06:00So what you're trying to say is, "people ...So what you're trying to say is, "people are lazy, we need to cater to laziness."? Sorry, but just because people have been programmed to be fed entertainment on their couches, doesn't mean that RPGs need to follow suit.<br /><br />There's a giant reason why I play RPGs: they are interactive. I don't get it, I really don't. If you're coming to a game to be spoon-fed a pre-fab story then why the hell are you there at all? Go play an MMO, a board game, go watch a movie, a CRPG. There are a metric ton of media sources to go to, to find linear stories, but there's really only ONE place that exists (until we get Holodecks) where we get fully interactive ones. And that's P&P RPGs.<br /><br />So to those who would tell me that I should just accept laziness, I say, get the hell out of my gaming group. RPG = Sandbox gaming, period. That's the way it's meant to be played, if you're not playing it that way, you're not playing an RPG, you're telling bedtime stories.GaelicVigilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14090409075091814946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-24764379997713977312013-02-11T23:18:36.782-07:002013-02-11T23:18:36.782-07:00I think that there are a couple of salient points ...I think that there are a couple of salient points here: 1. That most people prefer the "easy" path, in life and in their gaming. 2. That initial biases (or even the results of the initial attempt at something "new") will strongly influence that person's reaction to that activity. In all, I agree with everything here.Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14531253485041961783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-43381298756405158532013-02-11T21:54:13.815-07:002013-02-11T21:54:13.815-07:00The game is no fun when the DM knows what happens ...The game is no fun when the DM knows what happens next.<br /><br />Unless, of course, you happen to be some kind of sadist. Or a masochist, for that matter.joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12351926278188565029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-786555327531362352013-02-11T20:54:54.873-07:002013-02-11T20:54:54.873-07:00The mentality of "good is good enough" i...The mentality of "good is good enough" is something I've run into quite a bit discussing D&D with people. The familiar is a very persuasive voice in the back of one's mind. It is comforting. It is safe. It spreads vicious lies about new ideas and new ways of thinking.<br /><br />I prefer to think that good is never enough. If I do as well DMing today as I did yesterday I have failed myself because I try to improve at least a bit with every day even if that improvement is realizing something I've done wrong or could improve on. I found that little Imp familiar on my shoulder, stabbed him and flensed him to make a dice bag. I've never been happier.<br /><br />I think the distinction between games where the DM "knows" what is to occur in the long-term versus a DM having pretty much no idea is a very important one. People underestimate just how much presupposition and expectation colors and biases our decision making as human beings. I do not like my decisions as a supposedly impartial referee (a DMs role) being prejudiced by what I may have predetermined regarding the game. It is why I resolve campaign world events using a die system rather than simply deciding what would happen. In this way even I do not know how things will play out much less my players.<br /><br />Excellent post.YagamiFirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09280013813938686538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-56917895052642935822013-02-11T19:33:43.296-07:002013-02-11T19:33:43.296-07:00Thank you Dave,
But you know, it only just occurr...Thank you Dave,<br /><br />But you know, it only just occurred to me a few days ago.<br /><br />I don't think you're wrong, Harlo. I play that way. However, the word 'stories' is misleading, and I'm not anxious to redefine the word. In the past I've used 'narratives.' All the same, perhaps we should just view it as TEXTURE.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-14629154007131733732013-02-11T19:29:41.638-07:002013-02-11T19:29:41.638-07:00I think the reason many people fail to run good sa...I think the reason many people fail to run good sandbox games when they're used to story games is that they imagine sandbox games as story games minus the story. I used to try to run games like that, and they involved a lot of incredibly boring loitering around town, and were rarely at all enjoyable.<br /><br />I think a successful sandbox campaign feels more like a hundred stories happening at once. Orcs are attacking caravans, and the baron might be a changeling, and there are tariffs on imported wine, and the country is being invaded, and giant rats are infesting the sewers, and so on.<br /><br />I see the story game as a very small, limited slice of the real, full game. It shows one particular path that might be fully adequate if it's exactly what the players want to do, but is completely insufficient if they go off the rails.<br /><br />A sandbox game, to me, is still a story game, just one where players choose the story themselves. So transitioning from story to sandbox is less like dropping what you've planned, and more like starting to actually sufficiently plan for the first time.Harlohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10124944584897809826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-86474376228543434802013-02-11T19:28:47.788-07:002013-02-11T19:28:47.788-07:00Very thought-provoking commentary, Alexis. I hadn...Very thought-provoking commentary, Alexis. I hadn't considered such societal changes since we were children to be the cause behind the huge change in gaming styles, but of course, now that you've pointed it out, it's obvious!Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10231423670489116607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-74053847040557250362013-02-11T15:43:44.903-07:002013-02-11T15:43:44.903-07:00Thank you, Alexis. As I was writing my comment I t...Thank you, Alexis. As I was writing my comment I thought some about that portion of my response -- in what way does the game change when the Referee knows the plot of the game?<br /><br />I have read much of what you have said about that concept and I am in agreement with you about it. In returning to my metaphor about movie previews and movies (I believe that the Society for the Prevention of the Abusive Elongation of Metaphors will be giving me a call after this post). . .<br /><br />When there is a schism between the Players engaging in a seemingly-Sandboxy game <i>and the Referee running a railroaded game in-fact</i> this is like <i>that one guy</i> who, having seen the movie dozens of times already, sits there commenting and telegraphing on the movie while you watch.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-33948352663627160662013-02-11T14:22:01.653-07:002013-02-11T14:22:01.653-07:00I will confess, Reverend, that I was on the wrong ...I will confess, Reverend, that I was on the wrong side of you until you wrote that you were including the DM as one of the players - though I don't think the DM necessarily is "a player," I am in full agreement that the DM should not know the eventual course of the game.<br /><br />Well stated.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-13980958171840830842013-02-11T14:00:24.148-07:002013-02-11T14:00:24.148-07:00This makes me think about the previews I avoid wat...This makes me think about the previews I avoid watching before movies in the theater. <i>Some</i> previews try not to spoil the story -- whereas others will give away the whole plot and all the "best" moments in an attempt to drum up interest.<br /><br />I think there is a false dichotomy here twixt "Story-First" and "Sandbox-ish" games. Granted, there are games that heavily emphasize one or the other, which I will I illustrate by returning to my "Movie Preview" metaphor.<br /><br />The "Sandbox-ish" game is akin to the preview that almost tells you nothing about the movie. I am thinking here of some of M. Night Shyamalan's movies where there was the title of the movie (which revealed little of its contents) and a very brief teaser of the movie's first moments. <br /><br />This is akin, in my opinion, to the location-based, unpresumed-plot-orientated game, I.E.: the "Sandbox." The Players have an idea of the setting and its tropes going into the session/s, but its direction is not known. I am including the Referee as one of the Players as the course of the game may not even be known to him.<br /><br />Contrast this with the heavily-plotted game that is akin to the movie previews I hate: "Here's the whole freaking movie in 2-3 minutes" preview. . .<br /><br />The preview reveals the major players (NPCs) and reveals a great deal of major themes. The major conflicts are spelled out in large crayon for the viewer. The climax is often hinted and in a lot of cases freaking spelled out again for the viewer. The worst kinds of previews even take the ending of the movie away from the realm of the viewer's imagination -- at which point the viewer is left only with wanting to watch the movie for "the Kewl Speshul FX."<br /><br />I would liken the "Plot Rodded" game as the latter. The Players and Referee know, going in, that there will be a linear (or pseudo-non-linear) plot. There will be major players that will drive most of the action (that the Players will passively observe or respond to). And there will definitely be a Climax (E.G.: "My Previous Encounter") to the "Story."<br /><br />Again, I believe games and games-as-operationalized-by-its-players will contain degrees of both. But, I hate those "Great Reveal Movie Previews" with a passion. . .Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com