tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post9001370916625563928..comments2023-10-14T03:58:59.333-06:00Comments on The Tao of D&D: Long TimesAlexis Smolenskhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-92095175940464035172011-08-23T16:13:58.457-06:002011-08-23T16:13:58.457-06:00In my earliest days of playing, I had nothing bett...In my earliest days of playing, I had nothing better to do. We played over the lunch hour at school, 4+ hours every weekday, and all day and night throughout the weekends. It wasn't D&D, but it was tabletop RP with dice. Call it about 30 hours a week. I learn fairly fast, and I was comfortable running the game without referring to rulebooks after about four months (about 500 hours). I was a devious DM and my players were entertained.<br /><br />Fast forward to D&D; I was playing much less frequently. It took perhaps three runnings to find my bearings (~20 hours), and at least another 12 runnings (72 hours) to feel comfortable enough to run a game. I am perhaps 300 hours in and not at the point of mastery yet, so I cannot say how long it would take. Previous experience in another gaming system helped me immensely as a player, but only a little as a DM.<br /><br />From personal experience I would agree that a 700-hour estimate seems reasonable. For someone with sufficient intelligence, creativity and general knowledge, 500 to 1000 hours spent playing, running, and designing the game would make for a competent DM. For a player, only a fraction of that time needs to be spent in that specific game system. For a DM, most of that time needs to be in the specific system.Chris Wolfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11247630943891521469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-54901231439021255122011-08-05T12:47:03.553-06:002011-08-05T12:47:03.553-06:00I try not to hide the fact that I don't have t...I try not to hide the fact that I don't have the most experience in the world. But I have to say, I don't advertise it often. To do so would be to say I lack self confidence and ultimately undermine everything said after that point.<br /><br />I've spent a lot of my life on games in the 'single player'. Some of my early memories are playing Lego space vs pirates vs civil war vs fantasy with structured rules and cash systems. Or combining Jenga, Monopoly and Risk into a pretty fun wargame. After my first introduction to role playing games I made my own, and had only a few interactions with a friend with them. After my first introduction to DnD, I spent hours running solo campaigns and creating arenas with specific rules to how to run them and advance. In all honesty, my experience is primarily solo and secondarily social. <br /><br />How does this play out? Well judging from what I've seen from my latest flood of gaming (0 to 3 real life and 4 forum) I have more confidence in rules than other players, but much worse ability to predict players/GM and their expectations. I also feel like I'm getting better at picking up new rules faster.Oddbithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12091924105175846386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-31753805144660955262011-08-05T12:34:04.399-06:002011-08-05T12:34:04.399-06:00Good point, Allandaros. I stand corrected.Good point, Allandaros. I stand corrected.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-67625066232832962712011-08-05T12:23:07.847-06:002011-08-05T12:23:07.847-06:00"Moreover, you have to consider that every ga...<i>"Moreover, you have to consider that every game you've ever played that ended in a disaster taught the wrong things with regards to proper game play ... so those are sessions that must be discounted."</i><br /><br />However, unlike a mechanistic process of climbing a stair or jumping a gate or something, I would submit that disastrous sessions do wind up teaching lessons and improving play. If the players make a complete hash of things and get TPKed, they learn from that. If the DM runs a slow, plodding session and nobody has fun, they can also learn from that (although admittedly some will fail to, in both cases, that doesn't discount the concept entirely).<br /><br />Also, I would argue that analogizing the session to a day is a problematic jump. Unlike the tasks which you're analogizing to, each game session has multiple decision points, and multiple learning experiences. I'd say that you're getting far more than one day of learning* from a session.<br /><br />*I'm <i>really</i> tempted to just start calling these units of learning "experience points." :PAllandaroshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01046079318999891967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-51302441780602907782011-08-05T11:13:35.947-06:002011-08-05T11:13:35.947-06:00scottz,
I make reference to the content creation ...scottz,<br /><br />I make reference to the content creation as instructive and positive. It's application is not interactive, however, and interactive is the central tenet of the game's play. Too much content creation and not enough play makes for a DM who ruffles papers, assumes his or her word is absolute law and reduces the ability to usefully inveigle players into the pleasure of campaigning.<br /><br />Gladwell's argument isn't that 10,000 hours makes you perfect, and it isn't my argument either. It is your personal standards which bring you closer to perfection. The term I use in the post is 'comfortable' ... where playing becomes second-nature, where you are like a duck in water. Many players & DMs continue to feel for a long time that they are scrambling for information, the right dice, rules and so on, or living the disorganized campaign to the fullest. Long experience enables the gamer to engage with others while habitually knowing the tools of the craft.<br /><br />Doesn't make him or her perfect.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-30895680180907426712011-08-05T11:02:07.560-06:002011-08-05T11:02:07.560-06:00Just a suggestion: you describe the two roles as &...Just a suggestion: you describe the two roles as 'DM' and 'Player', but would it be useful to consider that there were three roles: DM (running/hosting the sessions), Players (playing characters), between and during sessions there's the role of content creation.<br /><br />I'm curious as to your thoughts on treating the operational role of a DM and the world/content creation role as separate.<br /><br />An additional point: the 'Gladwellian' paradigm (just put in the time and you'll learn) flies in the face of every teacher who said that "practice doesn't make perfect, only <i>perfect</i> practice makes perfect."scottszhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10327316054801308727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-39534998990455742492011-08-05T10:50:51.474-06:002011-08-05T10:50:51.474-06:00I am viewing the entirety of one gaming session as...I am viewing the entirety of one gaming session as equivalent to one episode, and positing that it takes 700 said episodes to make an experienced gamer.<br /><br />Yes, unquestionably, without error, the proposition is false and does not provide a 'proof.'<br /><br />How many gamings do you propose it requires?Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-59441333051966287832011-08-05T10:36:54.870-06:002011-08-05T10:36:54.870-06:00I am confused how you get from a horse trainer com...I am confused how you get from a horse trainer commenting that it takes 700 repetitions of a single action to a person taking 700 hours to become proficient with something. I think you've made an erroneous assumption that 1 repetition takes 1 hour. I also think there is an incorrect assumption being made that humans take the same amount of time to train as horses. Some humans take much longer to train. :)Strixyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09611546357594535368noreply@blogger.com