tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post7041585162731578821..comments2023-10-14T03:58:59.333-06:00Comments on The Tao of D&D: Mounted CombatAlexis Smolenskhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-84147824396775935092013-06-10T00:47:58.841-06:002013-06-10T00:47:58.841-06:00An account of equestrian warfare from William of M...An account of equestrian warfare from William of Malmesbury, describing in part the Battle of Hastings (1066 AD). <br /><br />“Observing this, [Duke] William gave a signal to his troops, that, feigning flight, they should withdraw from the field. By means of this device the solid phalanx of the English opened for the purpose of cutting down the fleeing enemy and thus brought upon itself swift destruction; for the Normans, facing about, attacked them, thus disordered, and compelled them to fly. In this manner, deceived by a stratagem, they met an honorable death in avenging their enemy; nor indeed were they at all without their own revenge, for, by frequently making a stand, they slaughtered their pursuers in heaps.”<br /><br />These were beasts who were trained to bit and kick and trample the fallen with sharpened hooves. Nice to see some rules giving them their dues.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11930967848835421797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-42888108109235898562013-05-13T01:39:50.522-06:002013-05-13T01:39:50.522-06:00Some very good points raised here, and fairly comp...Some very good points raised here, and fairly comprehensive.<br /><br />A few minor details from my study of medieval combat.<br /><br />The standard European sword definitely could (and was) used from horseback. It was one of the standard weapons. The Master Fiore dei Liberi covers it in his manual:<br />http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Getty_Ms._Ludwig_XV_13_46r_-_Fiore_dei_Liberi_-_Equestrian_Combat_with_Sword_-_Google_Art_Project_%286885522%29.jpg<br /><br />Interestingly, he was of the opinion that in an engagement two horsemen, lance vs. sword, the sword would win every single time. The swordsman can wait until the lance is about to strike and beat it aside, and strike the lance-wielder as he rides past.<br /><br />The only option (in his opinion) was for the lance-wielder was to target the horse:<br />http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Getty_Ms._Ludwig_XV_13_46r_-_Fiore_dei_Liberi_-_Equestrian_Combat_with_Sword_-_Google_Art_Project_%286885522%29.jpg<br /><br />Some proviso might be made to allow for an opponent with a longer weapon targeting the horse effectively keeping their foe at bay, and denying them an attack.<br /><br />He talks about this as a footman, as well - waiting for the lance, and beating it aside, rather than the traditional D&D "set for charge". It's an extrapolation, but I think setting for the charge would probably be more effective against the horse, and trying to keep the rider at bay.<br /><br />Just a few thoughts from a historical perspective.Charles Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00941603544547428940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-6630699034906942002009-09-29T07:45:39.779-06:002009-09-29T07:45:39.779-06:00An optional skill I made>>
Sprinting:
Sprint...An optional skill I made>><br />Sprinting:<br />Sprints are normally explosive races in athletics, but on the battle feild sprinting could help a combatant get to a location faster. Unlike runners that have to "pace themselves" for the entire distance a sprinter will run as fast as possible until they burn out. Sprinting requires an acceleration so the player must make all rolls in succession. This skill superceeds the optional rules in the Player's Handbook.<br /><br />Jogging:<br />Sprinter Can Increase to Jog automatically with Sprint skill<br />Sprinters can Jog Number of Turns (10 minutes) Equal to Constitution <br />Movement Rate x2<br /><br />Light Sprint:<br />Sprinter Can Increase to Light Sprint with a Successful Sprint Check<br />Sprinters can Sprint Number of Turns (10 minutes) Equal to Constitution <br />Movement Rate x3<br /><br />Standard Sprint:<br />Sprinter Can Increase to Standard Sprint with a Successful Sprint Check at -4<br />Sprinters can Sprint Number of Minutes Equal to Constitution <br />Movement Rate x4<br /><br />Heavy Sprint:<br />Sprinter Can Increase to Heavy Sprint with a Successful Sprint Check at -8<br />Sprinters can Sprint Number of Combat Rounds (6 seconds) Equal to Constitution <br />Movement Rate x5<br /><br />After sprinting, a character must rest for 15 minutes before sprinting again and can sprint up to 3 times per day (6 times if they possess the running skill). Then at the end of day they must sleep a full 8 hours.<br /><br />Notes:<br />An unencumbered human can walk 120 yards (360 feet), slightly more than a football field, in 60 seconds. (4mph)<br />An unencumbered human can heavy sprint 120 yards (360 feet), slightly more than a football field, in 12 seconds. (20mph)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09915200822533400099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-78072647829881318632009-09-29T07:42:03.972-06:002009-09-29T07:42:03.972-06:00Players Handbook: Jogging and Running (Optional Ru...Players Handbook: Jogging and Running (Optional Rule) <br /> If your DM wants greater precision in a chase, the speeds of those involved in the chase can be calculated exactly. (But this is time-consuming and can slow down an exciting chase.) Using this optional rule, a character can always double his normal movement rate (in yards) to a jog. Thus, a character with a movement rate of 12 can jog 240 yards in a round. While jogging, a character can automatically keep going for the number of rounds equal to his Constitution. After this limit has been reached, the player must roll a successful Constitution check at the end of each additional round spent jogging. There are no modifiers to this check. Once a Constitution check is failed, the character must stop and rest for as many rounds as he spent jogging. After this, he can resume his jogging pace with no penalties (although the same limitations on duration apply).<br /><br />If a jogging pace isn't fast enough, a character can also run. If he rolls a successful Strength check, he can move at three times his normal rate; if he rolls a Strength check with a -4 penalty, he can quadruple his normal rate; if he rolls a Strength check with a -8 penalty, he can quintuple his normal rate. Failing a Strength check means only that the character cannot increase his speed to the level he was trying to reach, but he can keep running at the pace he was at before the failed Strength check. Once a character fails a Strength check to reach a level of running, he cannot try to reach that level again in the same run.<br /><br />Continued running requires a Constitution check every round, with penalties that depend on how long and how fast the character has been running. There is a -1 penalty for each round of running at triple speed, a -2 penalty for each round of running at quadruple speed, and a -3 penalty for each round of running at quintuple speed (these penalties are cumulative). If the check is passed, the character can continue at that speed for the next round. If the check is failed, the character has exhausted himself and must stop running. The character must rest for at least one turn.<br /><br />For example, Ragnar the thief has a Strength of 14, a Constitution of 14, and a movement rate of 12. Being pursued by the city guard, he starts jogging at 240 yards a round. Unfortunately, so do they. His Constitution is a 14, so he can keep going for at least 14 rounds. He decides to speed up. The player makes a Strength check, rolling a 7. Ragnar pours on the speed, increasing to 360 yards per round (triple speed). Some of the guardsmen drop out of the race, but a few hold in there. Ragnar now has a -1 penalty to his Constitution check. A 13 is rolled, so he just barely passes.<br /><br />But one of the blasted guardsmen is still on his tail! In desperation, Ragnar tries to go faster (trying for four times walking speed). The Strength check is an 18: Ragnar just doesn't have any more oomph in him; he can't run any faster, but he is still running three times faster than his walking speed. The player now must roll a Constitution check with a -2 penalty (for two rounds of running at triple speed). The player rolls the die and gets a 4--no problem! And just then the last guardsman drops out of the race. Ragnar takes no chances and keeps running. Next round another Constitution check is necessary, with a -3 penalty. The player rolls an 18. Exhausted, Ragnar collapses in a shadowy alley, taking care to get out of sight.<br /><br />Copyright 1999 TSR Inc.<br /><br />The NWP:<br />Running<br /><br />The character can move at twice his normal movement rate for a day. At the end of the day he must sleep for eight hours. After the first day's movement, the character must roll a proficiency check for success. If the die roll succeeds, the character can continue his running movement the next day. If the die roll fails, the character cannot use his running ability the next day. If involved in a battle during a day he spent running, he suffers a -1 penalty to his attack rolls.<br /><br />Copyright 1999 TSR, Inc.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09915200822533400099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-2314324665409041542009-08-12T08:21:52.382-06:002009-08-12T08:21:52.382-06:00Zzarchov,
I know of no rule in any of the origina...Zzarchov,<br /><br />I know of no rule in any of the original books that allowed for multiplication of the speeds given in the Monster Manual. For myself, I'd rather make the base speed of the horse 10 m.p.h., so as to not foil with the system I use.<br /><br />Although, a saddled, loaded horse with an ordinary rider (not a jockey), not being bred for speed, would be hard pressed to reach 40 m.p.h.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-20561428854809093572009-08-12T06:42:01.988-06:002009-08-12T06:42:01.988-06:00On the note of movement,
In D&D (maybe they c...On the note of movement,<br /><br />In D&D (maybe they changed it) did not one have the option to run up to 5x speed?<br /><br />Thus a horse could run up to 40mph?Zzarchovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07714805545939725730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-37930554258759867432009-07-31T11:21:02.647-06:002009-07-31T11:21:02.647-06:00Some great points and great ideas. I think the mai...Some great points and great ideas. I think the main reasons mounted combat is ignored in D&D is the same reason mass combat is so woefully ignored…D&D remains a small-scale tactical (often Indoor) adventure game featuring individual heroes. <br /><br />Doesn’t mean it can’t be more, though!<br /><br />You’ll excuse me if I pillage some of your lines and streamline them for my own (B/X) use. Especially intriguing is the idea of “who breaks first” with regard to cavalry charging massed footmen. I believe a simple morale check or two will go a long way in this circumstance. Since PCs don’t need to check morale, they can turn the tide of such an engagement regardless of which side (charger or charged) they may belong to.<br /><br />Thanks!JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532311924539491087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-71764991378290603322009-07-24T13:14:36.960-06:002009-07-24T13:14:36.960-06:00Just wanted to chime in and say thanks for the inf...Just wanted to chime in and say thanks for the info - this is great. I'm trying to figure out the movement rates for horses, using averages, but I've just been using wikipedia.<br /><br />I completely agree that mounted combat is woefully ignored in AD&D and any more you can post about it would be much appreciated, even if it's just your minor house rules. It's difficult to figure these things without having any relevant personal experience.Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00433823836676600019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-11792229471829775262009-07-23T18:59:46.615-06:002009-07-23T18:59:46.615-06:00It's a very good start. I have a couple of di...It's a very good start. I have a couple of discussion points that you've probably already considered.<br /><br />1. Stirrups and Saddles. If your riders have them, they should get a damage bonus because the rider can use the mass of the horse to increase lance/spear damage in a charge. Additionally, they should be more difficult to dismount if they have proper saddles and stirrups. Cavalry, for a couple of thousand years, did not have stirrups or saddles and so that primitive (or demi-human, say goblin) cavalry would get only a to-hit bonus when attacking from horseback. Also, warhorses in ancient times were small and maneuverable -- more like ponies. It wasn't until much later that the horses got big, like the destrier. Destriers don't turn very well, by the way.<br /><br />2. Footmen. Successful footmen surround riders, pull them off their horses and beat them to death while they lay on the ground. This is in clear violation of the rules of chivalry which state that people on horses are not to be pulled off by people who are not on horses and then beaten to death while on the ground. So, footmen should get a bonus to win a grapple with a rider *if* the horse is moving at 1/4-speed or less (and in an adjacent hex/square). This would be balanced by the horseman's +1 to hit bonus for striking from horseback. He can try to swat them and may be successful, but he's going to get surrounded, pulled off his horse and beaten to death on the ground, unless the peasant footmen have been instructed by their lord in the rules of chivalry. In this case, they will refrain from this very effective tactic at the risk of offending their lord by beating his cousin to death on the ground after pulling him off his horse.<br /><br />There's historical evidence that this tactic was very effective -- I should cite something but I'm lazy. So effective that the rules of chivalry were changed so that the knights could ride around and chop down peasant footman like God ordained without being pulled off and beaten to death, which was obviously an affront to God and The Natural Order.Original_Carlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03521777462227997158noreply@blogger.com