tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post6043685581873304884..comments2023-10-14T03:58:59.333-06:00Comments on The Tao of D&D: Thieving Abilities - Locks & StalksAlexis Smolenskhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-80093063334058629952012-07-31T22:04:43.908-06:002012-07-31T22:04:43.908-06:00Oh, there are a number of ways thief skills can be...Oh, there are a number of ways thief skills can be modeled; it really just depends on what you want your world to look like.<br /><br />For example, say one subscribes to the view "you either know how to do a heart transplant or you don't." Well, then, my 'thief-skills-don't-require-skill-checks' rule seems to make a lot of sense...do you know how to climb a wall or not? How to pick a lock or not? Given the proper tools and enough time, you should be able to accomplish the task...assuming you know your craft the way, say, a fighter knows to use a shield and long sword.<br /><br />In my own campaign, I would only call for a roll under less-than-optimal conditions: trying to pick a lock with a raging combat going on nearby or climbing a perilous cliff in the middle of a rain storm. In these cases the thief's skill check, and level, would come into account. Since most PCs chose to use their skills under less stressful conditions, the main thing lost was time, causing torches to burn low and increasing the chance of 'wandering monsters.'<br /><br />On the other hand, if you want to model all 1st level thieves as inept incompetents who should have finished their apprenticeships prior to wandering off into a dark dungeon, well you can use the system as written. It really depends more (in my opinion) on the cosmology of your world and how you interpret the modeling of the rules.JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532311924539491087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-22442107913332861322012-07-31T12:32:21.275-06:002012-07-31T12:32:21.275-06:00Trying to fix the flaw by jamming thieves into the...Trying to fix the flaw by jamming thieves into the spellcaster template (by replacing "spells" with "skills") is a dumb ass solution, one we already watched 4th edition stupidly do with fighters.<br /><br />Worse, there just aren't that many "skills" you can invent which don't ultimately gather dust on a character's sheet. We've seen the 3rd edition skillset and holy shit, is there a lot of crap there.<br /><br />You're making the same mistakes game designers already made decades ago, thinking that "improving" in one's profession means learning to do new things. I've got news for you, JB - when you become a doctor, "heart transplant" isn't a magical skill you get after performing a hundred appendectomies ... you either learn to do this, or you don't.<br /><br />At the same time, with something like writing, it's not like after five years of novel writing, I "graduate" to poet. NO, what happens is you get to be a better novelist, and then one that's better still, and then you start improving (if you don't turn into a raving drunk, that is, or you're not dead of old age).<br /><br />The problem with your tried-and-fucked-the-hobby-already concept is that it isn't based on anything like actual human experience - but it is really nifty for people who don't know what the hell they're talking about.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-81481228557280570372012-07-31T11:51:40.225-06:002012-07-31T11:51:40.225-06:00By "master" I meant, "achieve a deg...By "master" I meant, "achieve a degree of competence where the chance of failure drops to near nil."<br /><br />Take, for example, the magic-user. Is there ever a chance the character will fail to correctly pronounce the magic words or "twiddle their fingers" incorrectly? No, the mage either knows the spell or does not (and either has it available or not). <br /><br />But perhaps the spells known are simply those the mage has mastered, i.e. they might TRY to cast another spell (and perhaps that's a bit of what reading a scroll is), but only the ones gained through level progression are "mastered."<br /><br />What I was suggesting with rgard to thieves was the idea of, say, allowing the thief to master one skill per level earned (i.e. going up to a 95% or 98% or 100% chance) while other skills might still be used with their standard piss-poor percentages, rising O So Slowly. Thieves, unlike magic-users, have a certain Devil-may-care attitude and thus aren't afraid to continue to attempt skills they haven't "mastered"...but who says all skills must improve at a blanket rate over time?<br /><br />As I said, just another idea (instead of allowing all skills to be "no fail").JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532311924539491087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-82300897680950784852012-07-28T07:38:56.272-06:002012-07-28T07:38:56.272-06:00I'm sorry JB ... what's complex about roll...I'm sorry JB ... what's complex about rolling three dice and subtracting? You're kidding me, right? You're a kidder.<br /><br />Why do mages simply get another spell if thieves have to "master" another skill?Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-36531071382073655482012-07-27T23:48:02.054-06:002012-07-27T23:48:02.054-06:00Yeah, I removed all thief skill rolls from my B/X ...Yeah, I removed all thief skill rolls from my B/X game some time ago (more than a year...I don't remember, it's on my blog somewhere). Instead, thief skills just automatically succeed, so long as they take the time to succeed.<br /><br />Did it break the game? Nope. What it DID do was allowed thieves to play as thieves instead of lightly armored archers/fighters. Prior to nixing skill rolls, beginning thief characters would look at their piss-poor skill percentages and say, 'no I don't really want to check for traps, thanks.'<br /><br />With hindsight, I realize I took an over-expedient, cut-the-Gordion-knot approach. The problem is, in a game with levels, I removed the incremental increase in effectiveness that occurs with advancement: fighters fight better (and receive more HPs than other classes), spell-casters gain access to more spells, clerics turn undead better, etc.<br /><br />Your posts here (especially regarding distances) are more complex than I would use in my game (par for the course: the level of complexity and "reality" in your game is more than I care to use), but it's definitely food for though...providing increased effectiveness NOT RELATED TO SKILL PERCENTAGES with ever level increase.<br /><br />Perhaps thieves need to learn/master one new skill per level or other? Just an idea.JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532311924539491087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-69311934867937739992012-07-27T20:35:53.791-06:002012-07-27T20:35:53.791-06:00I really like your take on this! As far as getting...I really like your take on this! As far as getting rid of the percentages, I wrote in my blog recently here:<br />http://deconstructingdungeonsanddragons.blogspot.com/2012/07/on-thief-skills.html<br />Where I convert to a D20 system in keeping with the D20 nature of everything else. The distance affecting chance of success seems like a much better mechanic to me. I'm liking this a lot.DaveLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01837748113498012191noreply@blogger.com