tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post3827401664610236239..comments2023-10-14T03:58:59.333-06:00Comments on The Tao of D&D: MonarchyAlexis Smolenskhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-19682698624323165302009-12-15T10:47:01.529-07:002009-12-15T10:47:01.529-07:00R,
I do not use alignments. They are a silly pri...R,<br /><br />I do not use alignments. They are a silly principle, invented by silly people who believed that character somehow stems from silly black-and-white ideals. They should have read more drama.<br /><br />As such, I don't care what a paladin does. No gods that I know of in human conception would have found any trouble in treating lesser individuals as scum in favor of the King. By <i>definition</i>, the power in charge kicking ANYONE off land is a lawful act - which still applies anywhere on earth, including in the U.S.<br /><br />As far as capitalistic ideas, my world takes place at just the point when capitalism has begun to challenge religious authority just at the point when religious wars have weakened every clerical institution in Europe - at the end of the Thirty Years War. Chaos? Certainly.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-16478937986629945282009-12-15T10:38:01.001-07:002009-12-15T10:38:01.001-07:00Alexis - do the alignments in your campaign have a...Alexis - do the alignments in your campaign have a modern or medieval bent to them? If "might makes right" is the social standard, does the Lawful Good Paladin defend the King's right to treat lesser individuals however the King sees fit? If a Baron or Lord kicks villagers off his land is that an evil or even unlawful act? Are those who believe in capitalist ideals seen as chaotic since it's against the norm? (do you even use alignments?)Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00433823836676600019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-87966229792143728322009-12-15T10:27:49.818-07:002009-12-15T10:27:49.818-07:00Ian,
I read a lot. The post disputes nothing I c...Ian,<br /><br />I read a lot. The post disputes nothing I can think of, but it was the result of three weeks of steady conjecture of how best to describe the principle.<br /><br />Carl,<br /><br />By god, you’re a Jeffersonian.<br /><br />The question, “when and how did we start to civilize ourselves” is the key rebuke to your argument. Civilization may derive, in some fashion, from a biological imperative as you say, but it is not necessary to biological function, and at some point we know it did not exist. Believe it or not, the institutionalization of absolute power was a <i>forward step</i> from random, blundering jungle law ... which had gone before. A plain monarchy, like any other system of government, including the ones at present, are <i>transitional</i> phases of the civilizing process. Civilization has to be invented.<br /><br />The inventors have never been the ignorant masses. The argument you make, that is “convenient” to think of the masses as ignorant, was not made by one of them, but by an educated man, a Jeffersonian hero named John Locke. Locke who had read Hobbes, who had read Thomas More, who had read Aquinas and Abelard and so on. I can think of examples going back to Homer, arguing exactly what you are arguing ... but these things were not argued by all people, just as you won’t find fifty questioners of the American method in your local Dunkin’ Donuts. The masses don’t question. They don’t invent new systems of government. They accept. They line up for Sarah Palin’s book because it helps them to sleep at night.<br /><br />Whatever compels the educated to question is certainly a good thing, but I doubt it is biological because it does not foster in everyone. It seems to foster only in the very few, who in turn ‘sell’ it to the very many. Thankfully, throughout history, the very many have been capable of being convinced, else none of this experiment would have worked. The compulsion, I believe, is that the educated are easily rankled, just as you were by this post, just as Jefferson must have been to propose a change in government which he knew would sacrifice lives.<br /><br />And that is how we have civilized ourselves. By technological principles, employed first then later discarded by what we can invent later. You, me, all of us live on the pinnacle of that effort – which is why I began with denying your beliefs. When monarchy was first employed as a method, your beliefs hadn’t yet been conceived.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-86241829117318771902009-12-15T09:07:06.525-07:002009-12-15T09:07:06.525-07:00@Carl,
"And for those who didn't carry t...@Carl,<br /><br />"And for those who didn't carry the "civilized" gene, for those who believed that "might made right" they have been, and are being culled from the breeding pool."<br /><br />One only has to look at the parts of the world where a power vacuum exists to refute that. I think it's more of a "herd mentality" that leads to self-domestication than any genetic tendency. <br /><br />It would be nice to think that we're moving beyond destructive tendencies where "might is right", but I'm not so sure. <br /><br />I also think that if you look at places where totalitarian rule has been in effect for awhile, you see a large amount of the population that wishes for the "good old days", oppressive as they were. The former Soviet union is a good example - and look at how a great many Chinese are perfectly comfortable with Communist rule.Michael S/Chgowizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052820400496340137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-80517137512768443472009-12-15T08:59:16.281-07:002009-12-15T08:59:16.281-07:00I like your Civ to D&D series quite a bit. Wa...I like your Civ to D&D series quite a bit. Walking through the various discoveries and juxtaposing them against D&D concepts is a great idea for a series of articles and your execution has been superb.<br /><br />I agree with a lot of what you say in this piece, but I have issues with your third paragraph. The whole "right to rule" thing grinds on me. Part of that is my modern sensibility. Another part of it is the nagging question, "When and how did we start to civilize ourselves?" I think the characteristics you refer to in the third paragraph are justifications made by those in power. They have a "right" to rule. The poor and huddled masses "want" to be ruled, "must" be ruled and look! Here I am with my wealth and my thugs. How convenient.<br /><br />I believe that our evolutionary development, our psychological, cultural and to a lesser extent our biological evolution have been driven by self-domestication. We as a species have in some part of our consciousness carried these thoughts of perceived equality and social contracts between the state (the civilization) and its people. The fact that we're packed nuts-to-butts on buses, trains and city streets without hourly violence is a testament to that. And for those who didn't carry the "civilized" gene, for those who believed that "might made right" they have been, and are being culled from the breeding pool. That I'm writing this while eating a doughnut and not fighting some lunk for my morning meal is testament to that. There are a lot fewer of those hyper-aggressive types around. Many of them are in prison. Many more have been killed.<br /><br />I've spoken about Lake Toba in the past, where two strange tribes of humans meeting each other were as likely to fuck as to fight. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe_theory).<br /><br />Along with that, I'm dropping two more links, self-domestication (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-domestication) and evolutionary psychology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_psychology).<br /><br />These ideas of "equality" and "justice" have been with us for a long time -- far earlier than the age of enlightenment. I posit that a peasant revolt, or a series of them is what kicked off civilization to begin with. Our first acts of self-domestication were probably to kill the marauding bastards who were stealing our food. Every peasant revolution since has been a variant on that theme.Original_Carlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03521777462227997158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-57918693492262507452009-12-15T06:48:07.301-07:002009-12-15T06:48:07.301-07:00Are we connected these days? In my world vision, t...Are we connected these days? In my world vision, the world at large is going to look at the players with the same suspicious, hoary eye that they players look at the world. Adventurers and ne'er-do-wells at best, criminals and possible thugs/brigands at worst. My monarchs, lords and high priests are all self-serving in the end, but I never put the pieces together as to why. <br /><br />I never thought about the commoners actually desiring the strong as a security blanket, but duh - it makes sense. Many different types of personal relationships are based on power exchange and inequality serving as the "protocol" or basis for existence, so why not extend that to the needs of the peasantry? I think you just made my Dark Ages players' lives a lot more difficult.<br /><br />We're not so far removed from feudal times as we like to think. One good crisis and we (the US) could look like the 1990 Balkans very quickly.<br /><br />Great post!Michael S/Chgowizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052820400496340137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-40573677566311060092009-12-14T22:28:50.882-07:002009-12-14T22:28:50.882-07:00A substantial number of kings in various D&D g...A substantial number of kings in various D&D games I've played and run in have been proclaimed to be of Good alignment. After reading your post, I realize that this should probably not be the case, and that I have the sudden urge to rethink my Kings...DMWieghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03682249561077936507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-47946897560813823322009-12-14T20:10:56.935-07:002009-12-14T20:10:56.935-07:00Fantastic post! I'm curious how much research ...Fantastic post! I'm curious how much research went into it and how much was of your own ingenuity.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05494391031541363595noreply@blogger.com