tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post1676844482175275093..comments2023-10-14T03:58:59.333-06:00Comments on The Tao of D&D: RumoursAlexis Smolenskhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-51187906978692660122009-05-25T01:42:02.168-06:002009-05-25T01:42:02.168-06:00For more on the supersatured solution bit, here...For more on the supersatured solution bit, here's Bruce Baugh:<br /><br />09-06-2005, 09:51 PM<br /> <br />Bruce Baugh<br /><br />One of the things a lot of folks don't really grasp now is what the context was for original D&D. There was at least one long-running play-by-mail wargame, Midgard, with character rules not much simpler than D&D's. Steve Perrin and Sandy Petersen were poking at ideas that would become RuneQuest before they heard of D&D. I believe the same is true of Marc Millar and Traveller. Folks in M.A.R. Barker's narrative + wargame campaigns were talking about writing up rules for that. Steve Jackson's microgames were folding in proto-RPG elements. And the original D&D rules are really, really unlike a typical rpg of today. In terms of length and detail, they're actually much more like (say) a Forge game or indie publishing like Chad Underkoffler's, without anything like the clarity or focus you'd expect from such a venture. I can't lay hands on a page count right now, but memory tells me that when I could, I worked it out as something like 20-30,000 words total. Even if I'm off by a factor of two, that makes D&D much closer to Dogs In The Vineyard and Dead Inside than the new World of Darkness core rulebook, which is something like 120,000 words.<br /><br />D&D was just ahead enough of the pack to catch on, at a time when a lot of people were trying similar things and there was a lot of interest in the general idea. It could easily have been any of half a dozen rivals, and I think any of them would have enjoyed a broadly similar arc of rise and decline, since I think the decline owes at least as much to external competition for gamer attention as to features of D&D as such.<br /><br />http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=215659&page=20<br /><br /><br />Note that Gygax claimed Miller was deeply in Gygax's debt in terms of game creation ideas, but as the years go by and the cult-of-Saint-Gary-Who-Did-No-Wrong builds up, expect these names to be obscured.riprockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16593838343803880040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-71811325214612377722009-05-24T20:50:16.923-06:002009-05-24T20:50:16.923-06:00Thank you Strix,
The addendum is much appreciated...Thank you Strix,<br /><br />The addendum is much appreciated.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-1790226787339453732009-05-24T19:05:57.710-06:002009-05-24T19:05:57.710-06:00"In 1979, Arneson filed the first lawsuit (of...<I>"In 1979, Arneson filed the first lawsuit (of five) against Gygax and TSR Hobbies (D&D's publisher) over crediting and royalties on later adapted versions of Dungeons & Dragons. Dave left D&D/TSR and they resolved the suits out of court in 1981, but this did not end the lingering tensions between them. The court documents are confidential and he cannot talk about the issues involved. Just how much Arneson contributed to D&D remains a mystery that gamers continue to debate.<br />-<A HREF="http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Dave:Arneson.htm" REL="nofollow">www.economicexpert.com</A>"</I>Gygax, Arneson and Jeff Perren - though I am unaware of Perren suing Gygax.<br /><br /><A HREF="http://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/setpages/chainmail.html" REL="nofollow">http://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/setpages/chainmail.html</A>Strixyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09611546357594535368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-88373857447293330462009-05-24T04:37:54.650-06:002009-05-24T04:37:54.650-06:00One of the early playtesters, Mike Mornard, descri...One of the early playtesters, Mike Mornard, describes the RPG situation as a "super-saturated solution." i.e. a lot of teams were working to get games out. Gygax himself said that he rushed into print because he knew competitors were out there.<br /><br />And most importantly, Gygax, Arneson, and Wesely were just doing one twist on role-playing. <br /><br />Many, many schools, therapists, and businesses were doing role-playing, plus the SCA invented LARPing years before Arneson invented tabletop.<br /><br />So, yeah, anyone from the SCA could legitimately say, "Gygax stole my idea." But ideas are not property for purposes of theft laws.riprockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16593838343803880040noreply@blogger.com