tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post1397609949470011251..comments2023-10-14T03:58:59.333-06:00Comments on The Tao of D&D: Using Hit Points to Mess with Your PlayersAlexis Smolenskhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-37242659174083896862012-07-26T09:06:03.214-06:002012-07-26T09:06:03.214-06:00And while I'm at it, I consider one of the bes...And while I'm at it, I consider one of the best stocked cupboards of human ignorance is the attitude some people have that IF such-and-such hadn't invented a thing, it would NEVER have been invented. Do we really think that science or knowledge is so dependent on the mind of one individual that we would have remained completely ignorant forever? Honking bullshit in the extreme.<br /><br />I may not be playing D&D right now, but I played wargames for years before I ever heard of D&D, and I worked in theatre for a decade - I think I could count on someone putting these things together by now.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-9309447345809036992012-07-26T08:58:12.368-06:002012-07-26T08:58:12.368-06:00What an enormous pile of dingo's feces that is...What an enormous pile of dingo's feces that is! Grateful to who? You? These two guys who lifted a ton of material from earlier gamesters? All the hundreds of unnamed players in the 1960s, who came out of wargames/military strategy games taught in R.O.T.C. in the 1950s?<br /><br />Maybe I should be grateful to the guy who invented the crapper, where Recursion's comment belongs.<br /><br />If we're going to look at the past in terms of our constant vigilant gratefulness, how the fuck are we going to improve anything in the future?Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-32117802431280008952012-07-26T07:54:00.707-06:002012-07-26T07:54:00.707-06:00Hitpoints are known to the players because the app...Hitpoints are known to the players because the approach of death in battle is known intuitively by the characters. They can /feel/ their reserves are running low.Pete Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03438651595079082035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-51778325149956694082012-07-19T19:10:19.059-06:002012-07-19T19:10:19.059-06:00I'm not sure that this improves the simulation...I'm not sure that this improves the simulation. If D&D "simulates" anything, it's pulp, not real life. As I recall, "Gods of Mars" has a passage where John Carter realizes that, while he hasn't been seriously injured yet, fatigue and blood loss from flesh wounds have caught up with him and he won't last much longer fighting. It would not surprise me to find similar sections in other pulp works.Derrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02139619999533346131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-68281082562338616412012-07-18T22:59:28.621-06:002012-07-18T22:59:28.621-06:00A game needs a way to lose. Hit points created on...A game needs a way to lose. Hit points created one that was attached to the character. One that a player could see coming, could counteract and could understand easily. They are successful for just a few of those reasons, and that is why they are used in DnD, Card Games, Video Games, Board Games and more... <br /><br />Though you may not notice it every time video games frequently hide the real number behind a curtain, and give you different ways to see them.<br /><br />Though usually it's because they value "realism" or "immersion" more than clarity in player status.Oddbithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12091924105175846386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-53178223787161039722012-07-18T17:11:21.380-06:002012-07-18T17:11:21.380-06:00Eric,
Were you under the misapprehension that thi...Eric,<br /><br />Were you under the misapprehension that this post is about the elimination of hit points?<br /><br />Because it's not.<br /><br />But this is an example of the sort of off-topic comments I sometimes don't allow.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-82188744516790210412012-07-18T16:54:26.048-06:002012-07-18T16:54:26.048-06:00Well, you have your handy-dandy stunning rule stil...Well, you have your handy-dandy stunning rule still. The badly-wounded fighter with 80 hit points fully healed is going to spend a time staggering around instead of fighting, isn't he? <br /><br />So two points:<br /><br />1) Why not pick out a less logically-fucked model? Hit points were certainly a useful approximation when everything had to be handy for paper-and-pencil calculations. Might it be worthwhile to consider something more nuanced with the ready availability of computers at the table? Or is the implication with hit points that "all non-fatal injuries are equally recoverable, back to full health and function" just too handy of an assumption for game purposes?<br /><br />2) How would it change things if a player's level acted as a multiplier for healing effects? Maybe use (2+level)/3 as a multipler for any healing effect? This will make combat more survivable for higher level characters, but prevent "my character spends 8 rounds after the combat smearing himself from head to toe in healing salve until he feels lucky again."Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07649420272387984400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-59159146222865439102012-07-18T16:41:24.082-06:002012-07-18T16:41:24.082-06:00Hilarious.
Gosh, you're right Eric. I am so ...Hilarious.<br /><br />Gosh, you're right Eric. I am so chagrined! It does take time and a lot of magic to heal people! Wow ... why didn't I think of that?<br /><br />But gee, let me ask - why is it an 80 hp fighter who needs his light wounds and his serious wounds and his critical wounds healed moves the same, fights the same and reacts the same at 1 hp than he does at 80?<br /><br />Listen, the logic is fucked either way, isn't it? So the only thing that really matters is how exciting and interesting is the game!<br /><br />The reason I haven't written a post about what hit points ARE until now is because I don't give a shit! Surprise! But its nice to know that I can always count on people arguing "logically" about something that it's impossible to argue logically about.<br /><br />The above post was written in the interest of being interesting. I know, I know ... that does tend to baffle people.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-74541690351026966002012-07-18T15:47:13.291-06:002012-07-18T15:47:13.291-06:00Then what exactly is healing, magical or otherwise...Then what exactly is healing, magical or otherwise, restoring? Even in the canonical "80 HP fighter down to 50 HP is tired and covered in nicks and scratches" example, it's always seemed counterintuitive that he needs multiple Cure Light Wounds/healing potions/salves/weeks of rest to get back up to full, where much less healing will restore a grievously wounded first level character to full health. With most hit points being that non-physical and luck-related, why wouldn't they be all recovered in a good night's rest, as in the D&D Next playtest materials?Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07649420272387984400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-76683935269892484742012-07-18T13:54:27.953-06:002012-07-18T13:54:27.953-06:00Why would you need to know at all? You know you&#...Why would you need to know at all? You know you're alive; that proves you have some ... knowing the original number only degrades the experience.<br /><br />Not you so much Butch, but people commenting on reddit don't seem to understand that I'm saying losing 8 hit points isn't "physical" at all. You're not losing "health." There's luck, but that's the dice, not the hit points. What's being lost is TIME ... the number of times your higher level character avoids the critical blow (taking hit point damage INSTEAD), before the critical blow lands - the one that reduces the character to cripple (minus hit points) or dead (below -9).<br /><br />Thus, as the combat goes on, and as damage is done, the players just don't know ANYTHING. They feel exactly the same - dodging, fighting, killing, whatever, but not actually especially feeling fatigued or reduced in physicality. This is the actual experience of combat ... not incremental reductions, but rather, "I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine - oh fuck I've lost my leg!"Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-5088847110891970422012-07-18T13:47:27.628-06:002012-07-18T13:47:27.628-06:00I love the idea of "mystery hit points."...I love the idea of "mystery hit points." I'm a big subscriber to the idea -- and I believe you're not -- that hit points are largely luck and skill, not a pure representation of physical health or strength. If it was merely physical, the same sword slash that would kill an 18-year-old recruit (1st level) would also kill a 40-year-old general (10th level).<br /><br />Obviously it is some combination of the three -- luck, skill, and physical health. My thought is that the hit points you get at 1st level, that's purely physical. And as the player, you would know how many HPs you have.<br /><br />As you gain levels, you gain hit points, not because you're getting physically bigger or stronger, but because you're accumulating luck and skill. But THOSE hit points -- the hit points you gain at each level -- are known only to the DM.<br /><br />So you'd know how many HP you started with, say 10. You know your Constitution, so you know your HP bonus. You can figure out, roughly, your HP minimum and maximum, but you won't know exactly.<br /><br />Love it.Butchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00470617214750867482noreply@blogger.com