tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post1062831923164624483..comments2023-10-14T03:58:59.333-06:00Comments on The Tao of D&D: The End of WarsAlexis Smolenskhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-44269722797869849922011-05-31T19:10:56.296-06:002011-05-31T19:10:56.296-06:00Blair: "The civilians that were casualties of...Blair: "The civilians that were casualties of war deserve our honor and respect as well."<br /><br />Indeed. I think it says something about America that we've replaced the original meaning of Memorial Day with hero worship and patriotism.Ben Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15824719452356386524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-55850815122729342172011-05-31T19:02:17.062-06:002011-05-31T19:02:17.062-06:00MiniatureWargaming Editor: "I don't think...MiniatureWargaming Editor: "I don't think that those of us who have not been in the service will ever really understand the emotions of those who were."<br /><br />I've always found that sentiment to be very condescending. Most people don't understand what it's like to be at war not because they are incapable of it, they just don't WANT to. That's just how people are an unfortunate amount of the time, and it's something I'd like to see changed.<br /><br />It's not like civilians are alone in this either. Some of the reporting that incensed me most about the recent conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq where about how veterans and soldiers in the field where being treated by the military itself. Mostly the disgraceful state of some military hospitals and attitude of some officers that PTSD doesn't exist and that soldiers showing symptoms just needed to "man up".<br /><br />There's also the fun case of conservatives crying about supporting the troops while simultaneously trying to cut veteran's services...<br /><br />Perhaps this argument has come out of different definitions of honor. I expect current and former soldiers to be treated fairly and with empathy, but with the understanding that they are just people.<br /><br />Consider it a character flaw if you must, but I find nationalism and the support thereof distasteful and misguided knowing how easily it is abused.<br /><br />Or do we consider the Wehrmacht (since WWII and flag waving pride were brought up) the noble and heroic defenders of the German people? The case could be made, especially when the Red Army started pushing them back into eastern and central Europe late in the war.<br /><br />What about the Crusaders, the Indian Fighters, the Golden Horde? Do we honor them equally? They all fought for what they believed in, where heroes to their people, and where the scourge of those they fought.<br /><br />I'm sure I could go on and on, but I've gone on a bit too long and I think you get what I mean. I'm not prepared to think of America as the shining city on the hill and it's defenders as angels to be idolized. Or demons to be despised for that matter.Ben Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15824719452356386524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-36575227219432708842011-05-31T17:25:00.316-06:002011-05-31T17:25:00.316-06:00The civilians that were casualties of war deserve ...The civilians that were casualties of war deserve our honor and respect as well.<br /><br />It may be naive, it may be idealistic, but all people should be working for a world and a future without war, for the sake of all people living, yet unborn, and those who did sacrifice their lives in past conflicts.Blairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10884401206802336531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-32380969000884620952011-05-31T08:30:57.873-06:002011-05-31T08:30:57.873-06:00I agree 100%.I agree 100%.Big Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06533110121012324111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-47850855001783445832011-05-31T08:22:49.825-06:002011-05-31T08:22:49.825-06:00Please Big Rob, don't misunderstand me. I, too...Please Big Rob, don't misunderstand me. I, too, respect a soldier, and what a soldier stands for. They are a weapon and they tend to be, with certain <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/canada/8074450/Canadian-military-officer-exposed-as-a-cross-dressing-killer.html" rel="nofollow">exceptions</a>, the most upstanding citizens. I question only how a state chooses to use that weapon, but I do not question the value, intrinsic importance or worthiness of the individual. As long as it is understood that worthiness may be found anywhere, you will not find anyone more respectful of a soldier than I.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-89326331159452026412011-05-31T07:58:47.065-06:002011-05-31T07:58:47.065-06:00Didn't mean anything at all by it. :)Didn't mean anything at all by it. :)Big Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06533110121012324111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-71379348445606875262011-05-31T07:54:54.182-06:002011-05-31T07:54:54.182-06:00It is very important that this discussion does not...It is very important that this discussion does not become personal. I will remove any comments which become unnecessarily dismissive or directly insulting.<br /><br />Ben Brooks, I have many times stood against the wind, often in public in front of many hundreds of people. I have found from experience that there is more room for legitimate discussion about the military in Canada.<br /><br />Miniature, while I recognize that your perspective is that of the victors, but the motivations behind the German state were certainly territorial disputes, pride and greed. Please understand that in this conversation, the matter of war and its participants is not measured only by the American involvement, but by the involvement of everyone who has ever picked up a gun. I will remind you that while most Americans, Canadians, British, French, Poles, Russians and so on did fight for noble reasons, many of the corporations and governments of those countries greedily scraped wealth and power off the top of the Allied War effort. Both sides profited from that war, and neither side is pure as the driven snow.<br /><br />Big Rob, please do not suggest that I am not also an expert in honor. I, too, have fought my wars and I, too, have stood up for things I have believed in. That I have not been trained by a state to use a gun does not diminish my equal value as a human being. Soldiers are not "more equal" than I am. They are equal to exactly the same degree.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-79887725709369888012011-05-31T06:51:06.900-06:002011-05-31T06:51:06.900-06:00That's why on Memorial Day, July 4th, etc. vet...That's why on Memorial Day, July 4th, etc. vets aren't marching in "PROTEST", but with pride, and carrying American flags.<br /><br />They're the experts.Big Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06533110121012324111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-26076728227576462062011-05-31T06:47:50.278-06:002011-05-31T06:47:50.278-06:00I never said wars were honorable. The men and wome...I never said wars were honorable. The men and women who answered the call are. I've worked with many vets from Vietnam (a very controversial war), and the justification of that war was never an issue with them. They get there honor from their own actions. It's what you do with the hand that life deals that counts. They were all just "regular people". <br /><br />The U.S. Memorial Day is not a celebration of war, but a day of remembrance of our war dead. My wife is of Canadian descent and her grandfather is listed in the Book of Remembrance (France, 1944). You remember your war dead with honor. <br /><br />As I said before, those that actually fought in wars are the ones I listen to. They all speak of honor.Big Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06533110121012324111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-37353667770245052742011-05-31T03:34:27.456-06:002011-05-31T03:34:27.456-06:00How, exactly was the US (and Canadian, for that ma...How, exactly was the US (and Canadian, for that matter) involvement in the Second World War a matter of territorial disputes, pride and greed? Those wars (and others) were fought to defend against tyranny.<br /><br />My wife is a veteran of Desert Storm, and we are proud of her service (officer, combat nurse). Twenty years later, she still has a duffel bag with her kit in the basement, in case she's called again. Ad she WOULD go again. For us, these memorial and veterans days are very significant.<br /><br />I don't think that those of us who have not been in the service will ever really understand the emotions of those who were.MiniatureWargaming Editorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02795824275815936103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-36757020252884826392011-05-30T23:44:07.739-06:002011-05-30T23:44:07.739-06:00@Big Rob: I don't mean to be confrontational o...@Big Rob: I don't mean to be confrontational or anything, but you kinda sound like a recruiting brochure.<br /><br />Brotherhood, honor, duty, patriotism, glory, and so on and so forth are all well and good when you want to motivate people. However they have nothing at all to do with war and it's motivations; most of which revolves around territorial disputes, pride, and greed.<br /><br />Not that soldiers are stainless angels either. Knowing what I do of human nature and history I just can't think of warriors/soldiers as anything other than regular people. With all the positive and negative aspects that implies, and it's just not within me personally to ever go lockstep with the propaganda about soldiers being noble, "the best and brightest", or whatever.<br /><br />Even more so because of that propaganda's long history of being cynically manipulated by those in power. Who has the guts to gainsay the home team and face the inevitable emotional backlash?Ben Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15824719452356386524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-67573303970554946212011-05-30T21:49:21.956-06:002011-05-30T21:49:21.956-06:00Memorial Day is sadder for us Newfies, seeing as w...Memorial Day is sadder for us Newfies, seeing as we remember the atrocious use of Newfoundland troops like the Blue Putees in WWI battles such as Beaumont Hamel and The Somme. The Newfoundland Regiment suffered an estimated 95% casualty rate while British officers could go back to London on the weekends. This decimation of the young men of Newfoundland and Britain's rapacious clamoring for the repayment of debts the Republic of Newfoundland undertook to protect 'the Mother country' led to the usurpation of our government in the 1930s and our joining of Canada in 1949.Tedankhamenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00181643018957592969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-67592563000209421182011-05-30T20:19:10.482-06:002011-05-30T20:19:10.482-06:00Oh no, they're 'rebellions' and always...Oh no, they're 'rebellions' and always referred to with that word.Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-67136169127898810642011-05-30T20:12:46.585-06:002011-05-30T20:12:46.585-06:00Still doesn't answer my question. From a Canad...Still doesn't answer my question. From a Canadian point of view, were they "Civil Wars" (however short), or simply the subjugation of bothersome minorities?MiniatureWargaming Editorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02795824275815936103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-71095743129780195232011-05-30T19:50:09.164-06:002011-05-30T19:50:09.164-06:00I don't know. I never had anyone try to kill m...I don't know. I never had anyone try to kill me. I never killed anyone. I never watched a friend be killed in front of me. I may never truly know where the come from. I won't pretend that I do. But I know many a gentle man who has experienced some of the worst atrocities a man can go through back when they were still "kids", and decades later they still shed a tear and hold their heads high. They speak of honor, so I listen.Big Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06533110121012324111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-71287301905026473412011-05-30T19:42:13.394-06:002011-05-30T19:42:13.394-06:00Willing to do it again, or wanting to do it again?...Willing to do it again, or wanting to do it again? Big Rob, you have my respect, and I will respect an answer: Does it do a man proud to fight a war that does not need to be fought?<br /><br />Consider, please, that I have some experience with this, in that my fighting spirit is derided for being aggressive and abusive. Does the flag of a country unquestionably make aggression and abuse holy? Or are we as citizens of the world responsible for standing up and saying no, I will not kill or die for this cause, until the cause be proved to me to be just?<br /><br />Does your nation hold you accountable for a blank cheque because you are - or were - a soldier?Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-12412727765776915042011-05-30T19:36:11.430-06:002011-05-30T19:36:11.430-06:00I am a vet (non combat), and from a vet family (WW...I am a vet (non combat), and from a vet family (WW2, Vietnam, Gulf) and all the vets I know that fought in wars believe in honor and all say they are willing to do it again. I think we should listen to them. They say be proud of them and honor their memory.Big Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06533110121012324111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-57899123333907470952011-05-30T19:35:51.736-06:002011-05-30T19:35:51.736-06:00We learn of the 1837 rebellions (they both took pl...We learn of the 1837 rebellions (they both took place in '37, a French one and and English one, for different reasons) in school, but most Canadians are indifferent or unaware, or in any case consider those things to have happened to the British Empire (not so strangly, they completely coopt the British successes in the War of 1812).<br /><br />Louis Riel in 1870 and 1885 are VERY, very important to the Metis of this country, but despite forty years of national propaganda the subject matter has failed to take root in the average Canadian's psyche. The Metis here are a badly treated minority, not given much consideration all around by the English or the French. In any case, neither one of those rebellions resulted in 600 thousand dead, and both were settled within a couple of months. The 1885 rebellion was actually settled in a few days, but it took months for the troops to actually reach Northern Saskatchewan - which was Riel's plan, believing that the government wouldn't actually bother.<br /><br />Canadians, when they get really patriotic about war, usually think of the First World War first, and the Second World War second. As Memorial Day was established to respect the end of the Civil War, Remembrance Day was established to respect the end of WWI. Here in Canada, like the U.S. today, war is backhandedly praised, with much more rhetoric about the fallen dead's sacrifice than about the sacrifice of the living. I shall never understand, nor appreciate, how it is that dead bodies sanctify atrocities. Yes, boys and men allowed themselves to be sacrificed for a country - why is it we spend so much time talking about the greatness of the personal sacrifice, and so little time talking about the criminality of the general sacrifice?Alexis Smolenskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10539170107563075967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-13008533540882373532011-05-30T18:47:48.868-06:002011-05-30T18:47:48.868-06:00I'm curious. How do you Canadians categorize t...I'm curious. How do you Canadians categorize the rebellions of 1837 - 1839, 1869-1870 and 1885? I think by definition they were Civil Wars, involving one part of the populace fighting against the established government.MiniatureWargaming Editorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02795824275815936103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-91684773179751834002011-05-30T16:31:02.686-06:002011-05-30T16:31:02.686-06:00Glory is what governments and rulers bestow on sol...Glory is what governments and rulers bestow on soldiers to make the people feel good about whatever conflict they want to push. If you want to honor someone's memory, learn from the mistakes and shenanigans that lead to their deaths and try your best not to repeat them.<br /><br />I think if we here in America wanted Memorial Day to actually mean something we should be taking the day to teach the population how to be more rational and involved citizens.<br /><br />Knowing more history would be a good start. :)Ben Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15824719452356386524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3871409676946408069.post-25217468767670473782011-05-30T15:35:42.570-06:002011-05-30T15:35:42.570-06:00Today, Americans take time to remember their war d...Today, Americans take time to remember their war dead. We are allowed to bestow honor and glory upon them. Long live their memories.Big Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06533110121012324111noreply@blogger.com